Illegal Police Force Can’t Dance to Save themselves

Bhainimarama the self appointed prime meanster is hoping that the known thief (ET the aliens light fingered bro) imposing his brand of religion onto the community will somehow through some power of divine intervention save his sorry old irrelevant soul from retribution.

Sorry Fulori, Bhainimaramas fate is to suffer the most horrible punishment. He is currently experiencing the first stages of his demise, bipolarism, dodgy ticker and extreme fear for his useless life.

As for those monkeys in uniform prancing around on stages at their police crusades, a reminder to them that those who don’t have soul, just can’t dance!

What a sorry lot! Wasting tax payers hard earned money by showing the world that some black people ain’t got no rythmn, yeah!

As a well dressed tukai muttered as he watched in amazement at their antics ‘ovisa kaisi’, how right was he!

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31 Responses to “Illegal Police Force Can’t Dance to Save themselves”

  1. Catchie Says:

    Well said. Crimes everywhere. Dancing doesn’t solve the problem. God wont come down to help a devastated state and government full of lies.

  2. Tui Says:

    What a pity that The Police Force has come to this.The use of religion to try and fight crime has become a spectacle that is bordering on absurdity and ridiculous. While the police are doing action hymnals on stage the criminal element of society are going to town committing crimes knowing that god is not coming to stop them as The Comish hopes. VB must be desperate (for that I have no idea)to allow his 2IC Teleni to do such unbelievable policing tactics.Maybe the rumor that big men are seen in VBs Bedroom every night is the authority that Teleni needs to futher his policing ideas.It appears that both VB and Teleni are going around the bend pretty fast.

  3. Anon Says:

    Interesting read in today’s FT (28/06) in Features page…..the good padre and pastor wife trying to clear their names and claiming being “victims of jealousy”. Sa dri yani!!!!

  4. Anon Says:

    Wow, just heard the live broadcast from NMCF held in Namaka. Does this so-called pastor have nothing better to say except to boast about their sects achievements…..OMG!!! Jaireh! as he was shouting out is a God of love and is the provider also. And the cheek of him to ridicule other churchs and especially the Methodist church…..!!! Well for a while I really got angry. I am currently listening to Rev. Naka’s session and is totally the opposite, so much peace as he talks about hearing different messages and to ask God for the power of discernment, to avoid being swayed by negative messages. Praise God!

  5. ketepoka Says:

    Na galu mai o sakaraia le…..o teleni le sa sivia dina na butabutako yacani lotu le….. levu la na nomu i sala le…. domomu e dua la le….. e matata levu tu le….

  6. Koya na Man Says:

    It is amazing to see the transformation of a Police Force to such a degrading state right now.

    I have a lot of sympathy for the boys in uniform as they are no longer doing their job and committing a sin by wasting Taxpayers money performing some other duty not aligned to their job description.

    If I’m not wrong the Police Jazz Band # 1 is now called Worship 1, Worship 2 for Jazz band 2 & worship 3 for J.B. # 3.

    Instead teleni should just name it Warship 1,Warship 2 and so on, as they are trying to infiltrate through dangerous waters in trying to weaken the Methodist church stronghold and get the numbers.They should change Nasova into a Theological College for Disciplinary Services including civil servants.

    Amazing to see how the whole thing is spiralling downwards and we all want to see where its going to end up, as half of the advisers have abandoned ship and the loyal ones stay on.

    It is going to be interesting to see which of these people will be committed to frank right to the end…

  7. Jean d'Ark Says:

    Sorry to jump off topic here – but this is what loyal, dutiful soldiers do when their Constitution is threatened!!!

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/americas/8123126.stm

    They don’t stand by, or listen to any lousy excuse about why, or aid and abet treason themselves!!

    They honour the oath they took, and put themselves on the line to defend their country and their Constitution!

  8. Budhau Says:

    Jean, go read that story again – that is exactly what you don’t want happening in Fiji. There the democratically elected president, whose term was limited by the constitution wanted to hold a referendum to extend his term – the people were to have a say as to whether the term was to be extended or not. The military decided to intervene and stop the referendum.

    You see Jean, this is exactly the type of mentality that will keep the cycle of coups going in Fiji – because some folks think that coup a justified – at least some of the coups.

    As for the discussion on religion – hey, so would most of you had opposed this kind of Christian crap if Rabuka’s police Chief had started doing the same thing together with the Sunday bans that we had in 1987.

    Now we are all for getting rid of the army and many of you seem to have bought into this idea of separation of church and state, democracy and all that – how things have changed in 22 years.

  9. Jean d'Ark Says:

    Except that he ignored the Supreme Court’s ruling on the matter.

    A referendum can only overturn the law if it is done within the Constitution and ratified by Parliament. Otherwise you would just end up with mob rule!

    Now you compare that to the Fiji situation where Frank has neither a legal mandate, nor a popular one, (nor a sensible one) to do what he’s doing. The duty of the disciplined forces becomes very clear in those circumstances.

    Anyway, glad to see that we are on speaking terms again now.

    Could you therefore please respond to my previous queries about: 1. The Regime’s backflip to budget-deficit financing, and; 2. The Fiji peoples’ alleged “willingness” to endure the current crisis for the so-far-invisible “benefits” of the coup/Charter?

  10. Budhau Says:

    Redefining the role of the military – isn’t that what Frank is all about.
    What happened in Honduras, and you seem to support that action, was that the head of the armed forces refused to provide logistics and security for a NON-BINDING referendum called by President, the legality of which is disputed by the courts and the opposition.

    So the military packed up the democratically elected President and shipped him out to another country.

    This is the type of expanded role that the Fiji military is proposing in the Charter – those who are opposed to the charter have pointed out that Fiji’s military needs to stay out of government, despite the proposed people’s charter recommending it takes a greater role.

    How would you have liked to see a a court decision against Qarase, and the the opposition agreeing with that courts decision and the Fiji military stepping in to provide a military solution to a political problem – as part of its expanded role – just like they did in Honduras.

    We can discuss about Frank as a separate issue – however, almost anyone who believes in democracy and all that crap has come out against the action on the military in Honduras – You may dig in and argue otherwise, or admit that you made a mistake and in endorsing the action of the military in Honduras.

    As for the “speaking terms” remark – haven’t you figured it out yet….that I chose my battles – specially when I am getting paid to do this.

  11. Willy Says:

    I wished we did not suffer from this lamulamu disorder that forces us to be always quite and docile even in the face of a brutal dictatorship that has now resorted to using religious fundamentalism to further trample on our rights. I wished we had a few good man inside and outside of the army who got the balls to do the right thing.

    How will we be able to explain to our children that we watched passively as our pround nation has been dragged into the shit by a few ruthless gangsters. Will we say, yes we believed the dictator that he wanted to remove race from politics? Will we say, yes it took 20 years to prepare for elections? Will we say, yes the military is the best thing Fiji ever had?

    They will call us irresponsible cowards who toleratd the sell out of our nation to a bunch of crooks.

  12. Budhau Says:

    Willy, you wrote, “How will we be able to explain to our children that we watched passively as our proud nation has been dragged into the shit by a few ruthless gangsters.”

    I think the time to stand up to dictators was in 1987 – and we failed. Not only we did not stand up to dictatorship, we supported dictatorships as long as the dictator is “out boy”.

    So this ain’t about democracy and dictatorship – what this is about is that the “wrong guy” grapped power this time, if, for example, the evil one had won the last election and one of our boys had pulled a coup on him, we would have no problem with that – so why this hypocrisy.

    We had a military coup, which has become a way of life in Fiji, we will have a new constitution and fresh elections and the beginning of another cycle – until someone decides that they don’t the results of another election.

    So you see Willy – these coups have phucked up the future of at least two generations – what are you going to tell the the next generation.

    So the issue now is not that we have had another coup, the issue now is who do we get out of this crap and make sure that this does not happen in future – and that requires a change in the mindset, that we can accept the results of a free and fair election and we must make sure that there is a peaceful transition after an election. So next time a non-Fiji wins an election, you should not tolerate 2000 idiots showing up in the streets of Suva refusing to accept the results of that election – you go get out 10,000 people to march in support of accepting that result – and you can then tell your next generation that you were out there marching for the rights of some candidate that you had not voted for.

  13. this is navoha Says:

    budhau in your ass will ever accept a kulina to lead us….all indians should fuck off to india once all things settle in august 2009….you will be the first to go….ill track u down & kick your ass…..no matter how much you preach about fair election or changing the mindset, we will still not accept an indian to lead us because in fijian eyes ….we see you as low caste race,greedy,cunning & deceitful. Fijian may accept other races like a halfcast but not an indian.

  14. Budhau Says:

    Thanks navoha – that is exactly the point I was making – that cut a the crap and say it as it is – and you just did.

    Yeap, you don’t give a phuck about about fair elections, democracy and all that crap – idiots like you will never accepted an Indian as the PM, even if he won an election – and if he does, you will support a coup to get rid of that Indian.

    So cut out this crap about democracy – and get bigger guns.

    BTW – as for idiots like you – I hope Frank holds on to power for rest of your life…and maybe appoint Chaudary as the next president.

    You see – if you have no problems pulling a coup on Chaudary because you would not accept an Indo PM, and you buggers did that twice, why do you have a problem with Chaudary supporting this coup….isn’t he playing by your rules.

    Let me get this right…you see Indos as “low caste race, greedy, cunning and deceitful”, and somehow, God is on your side.

    The funny thing is that you also believe that one them low castes guys has got you by the balls…you don’t have to accept him, he will make you do it.

    ..and those “Half-castes”, I think they call them part-Europeans

  15. Asgrocky Says:

    I don’t know what is worse, this interesting debate on race relations or the Fiji police turned puppets for bread and butter. Half castes and part Europeans???? Bainimarama does not fit that category. Nothing about his appearance suggests to me that he is either. He is just a black dude. So are his children and wife.

  16. Jean d'Ark Says:

    The military head did not just make up his own arbitrary decision not to take part in the referendum. What he did was the opposite of any “expanded role” by refusing to take part in any improper move to change the Constitution by “stealth”.

    The courts backed him up in his stand insofar as they declared his purported “sacking” by the President illegal. His fellow military heads all resigned in solidarity to avoid being co-opted into the illegal (just like they should have done in Fiji 2006 when the illegal takeover was first proposed to them).

    Honduras situation was not a military solution to a political problem – it was the military acting as the last guardians of the Constitution, which is what they were supposed to be in Fiji, too. The President was not pursuing any old political agenda – he was moving to change the Constitution via the “back door”.

    He was pointedly avoiding legal options along his chosen path, and in the end that led him to openly defy at least two Supreme Court rulings. That is not the same thing as the FLP agreeing with the Gates ruling. This was the Supreme Court of a sovereign and independent nation – the best legal minds they could muster.

    That is a very different thing to the charade of the Regime’s hand-picked kangaroo courts trying to pretend that their politically predetermined ruling was just and fair one.

    You can always expect opposition parties (or any political ones for that matter) to support rulings which favour them. But in Honduras, it was not only the opposition which was opposing the President’s unconstitutional moves – it was also his own party, and the Honduran parliament/congress! So when the Supreme Court comes down on that side of the argument as well, it is pretty obvious what we are looking at there.

    As to why Congress did not impeach him first, or the police did not intervene in some way, I cannot say. What I do know is that they still have competent courts that can deal with any subsequent challenges to recent events.

    My “support” for the Honduran military’s actions therefore has nothing to do with any expanded military role – it is quite clearly related to the military’s very obvious attempts to do what they needed to defend the Constitution in clearly extra-Constitutional circumstances.

    Their sincerity in that is underpinned by their immediate handover of power to civilian control under the existing Honduran Congress, with the existing Speaker as interim head of state. The Honduran elections set for next month are still going ahead under the existing electoral commission, and the existing laws.

    What is not clear is how you can support the quite obviously unjustified Fiji treason of 2006 and 2009, and then turn around and pick nits with the Honduran military which clearly attempted to do the right thing by defending their Constitution in trying circumstances.

    The Fiji military leadership did not try to do the right thing either in 2006 or 2009. All they tried to do was make up excuses and keep things away from the properly constituted courts and the people.

    The outworking of reality in all that is now delivering up exactly the kind of results that the legal, political, economic and military experts said it would, (despite all the “out of box”, “better Fiji” distraction from Frank, Samy and Father Barr.)

    So not only could the military have predicted that 2006 and 2009 were wrong just by listening to the experts (or anyone with a modicum of unbiased commonsense, really). They can also see it from the pear-shaped results of the coups that we are witnessing today, and that will only get worse the longer they hold out against “just doing the basics right”.

  17. Anon Says:

    Another detour here…sorry folks!
    What are these apologists up to, I mean the FHL board building a twin tower or something to that effect to accomodate the Commish Suva-Lautoka (matana), according to FTV news this evening……has this been discussed with shareholders, etc…..and the look on Sereana Qoro’s face, trying to stress that the BP deal is still on, no matter how long it takes…..wow!….lasa dina, just couldn’t stop laughing!!! Wili blog tiko beka o Bu and that look was directly aimed at us.
    And is Fusi Vave any relly to Mrs. Commish? Anyone can confirm?

  18. Jean d'Ark Says:

    Oh by the way Bud – in relation to your “picking battles” comment.

    Can I take it then that you are not responding to those queries because you figure you can’t “win” those battles?

    I guess that would be pretty hard since you would have to come up with some exotic arguments that either contradicted what you said before without appearing to do so. Or else contradicted what your Regime is doing now to the same effect.

    So since you are just defending the Regime no matter how many flip-flops it does, that means you cannot be defending any particular position/s.

    That means your “positions” here are not primarily derived from what your know or believe – they are mainly adopted out of whatever Frank or Mahen happens to be doing at the time.

    So all of your well-constructed arguments (and all your lame ones, too) are not therefore derived from what the facts indicate. Rather, they just follow backwards out of your pre-determined “conclusions”, which in turn simply need to be whatever they have to, to synch with whatever the Regime’s plans-du-jour happen to be at the time.

    I am sorry to say, that either makes your the biggest suck-up opportunist on the freedom blogs. Or else you are, as you suggest, a paid psy-ops “spin” mercenary with specific orders to follow!! (ie. spin, lie, cheat, deny – just do whatever you have to do to make sure the Regime doesn’t look as bad as they deserve to here, after all the silly things they’ve done since 2006)

  19. Budhau Says:

    Jean, you had praised the actions of the Honduran military that removed a democratically elected president by a military coup and your justification for that coup was that there was an “improper move to change the Constitution by “stealth”.

    With our recent history, I think we should think twice before endorsing military intervention or threat of force by the military if they disagree with what the civilian government is doing. .

    In Honduras, there was no justification for military intervention or a coup. There are constitutional and democratic means to deal with such situation.

    So you are wrong in supporting the coup in Honduras as justified. People who think like you are part of the problem in Fiji – thinking that some coups are justified while other coups are not.

    Supporters of Bainimarama have also offered various justifications for the Fiji coup – why the initial intervention was justified and why the military’s role in the process of constitutional change is justified. (BTW – don’t take this as me justifying the Fiji coup)

    The previous coups in Fiji were also accepted as a “sort of” legitimate means for taking out a democratically elected government that some did not agree with – that is was “justified”

    You were supporting the Honduran military as the “guardian of the constitution” that sounds very similar to the future role of the Fiji Military that Bainimarama is seeking – to act as guardian of the ‘national interest’.

    It is the courts who should act as guardian of the constitution – and if the court declares an an act of the President or the government unconstitutional, there are legal ways of dealing with it – we don’t have to call in the army every time that happens.

    So you see Jean, you are wrong in supporting the actions of the Honduran military in removing a democratically elected president.

    The more interesting thing here is that we get a glimpse of this mentality – that some coups are justified and that explains why there are people who have had no problem with previous coups and who are all for democracy this time around.

    As for me not “responding to queries” – Jean, just because you have decided that I am some paid spokesperson of the regime or the FLP – that does not make me one, does it?
    BTW – while you may disagree with the politics of the some folks who work with this regime, I think they also know as much as what you got in your economic 1A and 1B classes.

    Anyway, since you seem to be so keen on getting into this discussion – here we go.

    You wrote, “I guess that would be pretty hard since you would have to come up with some exotic arguments that either contradicted what you said before without appearing to do so. Or else contradicted what your Regime is doing now to the same effect.”

    So what exactly did I say before, that you think I may have a problem with now – go ahead, make my day – lets get to the specifics, rather than the rhetoric that I have been seeing in here.

    You also wrote, “So since you are just defending the Regime no matter how many flip-flops it does, that means you cannot be defending any particular position/s.”

    When did I defend the regime – most of the time what I do in here is shoot down some dumbass argument presented by some regime opponent in here – either their reasoning is flawed or they have their facts wrong – It is you who takes that and turns that around as me supporting the regime.

    You wrote, “That means your “positions” here are not primarily derived from what your know or believe – they are mainly adopted out of whatever Frank or Mahen happens to be doing at the time.”

    My position has always been very consistent – I do not support coups – I think this one was wrong, and so were the other coups. As for that pre-determined conclusion – I think you should reexamine some of you own conclusions as who I am, what I am doing here, who is paying me, yada, yada, yada.

    BTW – what we may have disagreements on is how do we get out of this shit – the coup has already happened. Supporting a negotiated settlement rather than taking a hard line does not necessarily mean that I support the coup the and the regime.

    Finally …and this one really hurt my feelings. You wrote, “I am sorry to say, that either makes your the biggest suck-up opportunist on the freedom blogs. Or else you are, as you suggest, a paid psy-ops “spin” mercenary with specific orders to follow!! (ie. spin, lie, cheat, deny – just do whatever you have to do to make sure the Regime doesn’t look as bad as they deserve to here, after all the silly things they’ve done since 2006)”

    Now, there – either way, I lose – right?

    BTW – Jean, your support of the Honduran coup – that is a very good example – you knowing the coup history of Fiji, you still came out for the coup – specially considering that most of the “democracy types”, including the Americans, who hated the Honduran president, have come out against the coup. You see how I have been consistent in opposing coup – and some of you folks are not – and I like to point that out every time I get chance…..just because I disagreed with you and pointed it out – that does not translate into me being “one of them”.

    OK – go ahead, hit me with your economy crap.

  20. Jim Black Says:

    Hey Anon just so you know, Fusi Vave is the sister-in-law of Police Commissioner Esala Teleni, talk about keeping it in the family!!!

  21. this is navoha Says:

    Hey guys stop the argument its boring ….Honduran coup, Fijian coup or Venzulean coup its all carried out by the same beast clothed in sheeps skin.
    Bainimarama, Chaudary & etc are just pawns in the game of global foreign policy by this beast. The issue back home…..methodist support this ,labour behind this, is just trival & petty issue the beast is aware of(through his network of secret operative feeding him information, working under the guise of voluteers,in aid teachers & etc) but they use that existing undercurrent conflict to their advantage and place more wedge so that we dont see the bigger picture……its just like see a painting in close sight and trying to form an opinion but once you stand back then you can see the connection & the bigger picture…or what I might say understanding an abstract painting.

    Please Budhau , Jean D Ark & co please check the site listed below on google to enlightened you more & understand whats really happening in Fiji & the rest of the developing world.

    Confessions of an Economic Hitman

    John Perkin:Third World Countries & Banker Debt on Al Jazerra

    The Best Democracy Money Can Buy: by Greg Palast
    Editorial Reviews
    From Publishers Weekly
    Muckraking has a long, storied tradition, and Palast is evidently proud to be part of it. In this polemical indictment of globalization and political corruption, Palast (a reporter with the BBC and London’s Observer) updates the muckraking tradition with some 21st-century targets: the IMF, World Bank and WTO, plus oil treaties, energy concerns and corporate evildoers of all creeds. Some of Palast’s reports are downright shocking (if familiar). He shows, for example, how the WTO prevents cheap AIDS drugs from reaching victims in Africa and how World Bank loan policies have crippled the economies of Tanzania and other developing countries. On the home front, he details Exxon’s horrific safety record before the Valdez disaster and reveals the price-gouging by Texas power companies during the California energy crisis. In Britain, Palast exposes the “cash for access” policies of the Blair administration, and blasts the legal system for shielding Pfizer Pharmaceuticals from lawsuits by victims who had defective Pfizer valves installed in their hearts. n “alien” There is much of value here, but readers who want a full-bodied, serious analysis of how globalization is affecting developing countries or how corporate giants pay for political favors should look elsewhere.

  22. Corruption Fighter Says:

    @Budhau

    Did you happen to catch any of the big pass out parade of the army and police recruits? Ninety percent plus Fijian!

    Does this encourage you to believe any of the propaganda of the regime about ending racial discrimination?

    What do you say Budhau?

  23. Budhau Says:

    CF – Just because you saw a disproportionate number of Fijians in that parade, does that mean that this Regime is discriminating against the Indos.

    Look at the case of the US armed forces, there is also a disproportionate number of the poor and members of minority groups that make up the US army – you don’t take that as some sort of a discrimination against the whites or the privileged Americans.

    There are some groups that simply choose not to join the army and signing up is voluntary. Do you suggest we get the draft going so that we have a racial balance in the army – or maybe some outreach/affirmative action programme to recruit the Indos.

    Now…. you look like a smart person, why don’t you go do your homework and explain to us why think the Indos were under-represented in that group of new graduates. Why the Indians have not joined the army in large numbers when the best and the brightest amongst the Fijians sign up with the army – well, at least that used to be the case.

    BTW – I think, that rather than trying to get a racial balance in the military, we should be looking at getting rid of the military – and focus more on a professional police force. You would notice that both Indos and Fijians historically have signed up for the police force. A professional police force would be more inclined to take orders from a civilian leadership.

  24. this is navoha Says:

    Dear bloggers please do check the recommended site listed below on google, to enlightened you more & understand who the real people behind the coups in Fiji & the rest of the developing world.

    1)Confessions of an Economic Hitman

    2)John Perkin:Third World Countries & Banker Debt on Al Jazerra

    3)The Best Democracy Money Can Buy: by Greg Palast

    4)The Best Democracy Money Cant Buy: Greg Palast

    5)Rogue State: William Blum

  25. Jean d'Ark Says:

    You’re right TIN, this is getting boring! This will be my final posting on the Honduran issue.

    By the way, I’ve already read CoET – a rollicking read! Astounding really – I’m sure a chunk of it would have been true, too. I’m sure it is one of the main reasons behind Pres. Chavez’s implacable mistrust of G.W. Bush and the neo-cons. I don’t think the Obama Administration would allow itself to get involved in anything like this though.

    One quote which I liked out of the book was Omar Torrijos’ “The bullet (missile) has yet to be invented that can kill an idea!” A lot of relevance in that for Frank and the current Fiji situation.

    Anyway now to the business at hand!

    Bud – sorry to get you so riled with my last post. I was a bit too brusque.

    But anyway here is the difference between you and me!

    Being a mole, you MUST simply stick to you mission objectives until your handlers change them. I on the other hand, can follow the debate, evaluate the merits of what is being said, and make adjustments myself!

    Therefore, I admit that my previous endorsement of the Honduran coup was mistaken! See simple!

    Now let us see you do the same! Let us hear you admit that the 2006 and 2009 Fiji coups were wrong in law and in fact!

    And let us hear you admit the obvious implications of such an admission – that the military must return to barracks! That Fiji must return to a democratically-elected Government under the 1997 Constitution! And that Frank Bainimarama, Josefa Iloilo, and Aiyaz-Saiyad Khaiyum and their inner circle of co-conspirators must face a court of law on charges of treason!

    Go ahead – say the words! Say them! And mean it!

    You can’t – can you?

    Because to do so you would be completely undermining your own psy-ops mission that you are being paid and ordered to do – ie. deflecting and disrupting the Blogs, and protecting Frank/Mahen!

    Here is the other benefit of paying attention to the debate, that I can admit when I’m wrong, but I also know when I’m right.

    In that respect, the reasons the Honduran coup was wrong, has NO RELEVANCE to the Fiji situation!

    The Regime in Fiji is completely illegal and without any basis. So any act by the Fiji military to remove it would not fall foul of the legal prohibitions that fouled the Honduran soldiers when they tried to protect their Constitution.

    It would also be the first time Fiji’s history that military intervention in civil affairs would actually have been in support of the Constitution, instead of breaching it as it has always previously done.

    So you are purposely confusing the loyalty of the Honduran troops to their own Constitution, with the legal strictures of how they should actually effect that loyalty.

    A military intervention to overthrow this illegal regime at this time would have no legal or moral obstacles whatsoever! For instance, nobody complained when Russian tanks surrounded the Kremlin at the fall of the Soviet Union with their guns facing outward (to defend Yeltsin and Russia against any Soviet backlash).

    This Regime does not have any legal foundation for anything that it is doing! Neither do we have competent or independent courts that could make worthwhile or independently enforceable determinations on the matter (even if they were allowed to consider such). We don’t have any democratically accountable Government to respond to the peoples’ wishes at elections. And nor do we have an independent media that could make that democratic responsiveness last throughout the Government’s term.

    All avenues of “legal” change and challenge have been removed. And all Constitutional means for it have been placed out of reach. That only leaves two options to the people of Fiji and her army – namely to allow the Regime to destroy itself and the nation, or restore the Constitution ourselves by direct action!

    That would not be a coup by any stretch of the imagination! For a start, it would not go against any law of Fiji that is recognized either inside or outside our borders. Neither would it make our already reeling economy any worse off than Frank has already made it. It would not pre-empt any alternative or realistic solution that the people of Fiji could have pursued in the meantime, since they have effectively been excluded from any determination of their own collective future anyway.

    Meanwhile your claims to have always opposed coups are hollow. You could barely hide your glee at the ouster of the Qarase Government, and have basically tried to come up with every excuse under the sun ever since as to why it was OK, and why these coups were not like the others. You could barely wait for your MPC to show us all his true mettle in Government, but when he did, you reverted to what you do best – making all kinds of excuses as to why bad is good, and wrong is right.

    It is only now that Frank’s self-inflicted problems have spread even into the ranks of the military itself, that you have suddenly changed your tune from triumphalism to appeasement.

    When you and the other military ghost-bloggers took your little time-out huddle last week, it was to sort out your tactical response to what we on the Blogs already know – that Frank has now lost majority support within the ranks of the military. Hence the recent change in your rules of engagement, and your approach on the Blogs.

    You could not admit you were wrong before that because that’s not what you were interested in. You were only interested in your psy-ops mission objectives. And so it was only until Fiji’s reality worked out in the way the Blogs predicted it would, that you then had to react to the right and wrong of the issue in the defensive way you now have.
    Are you guys proud of your psy-ops activities against your own people? Does it make you feel like real men to “attack” defenseless citizens in this way? Citizens who pay your wages, and who are only agitating for basic rights that every other civilized nation takes for granted? Don’t you think this is massive, shooting-fish-in-a-barrel overkill to be engaging non-enemy, non-combatants with psy-ops like this?

    And aren’t you just a little bit frustrated that with all your fancy techniques, and clever instruments, that you still haven’t really got anywhere with your psy-ops, and that Frank is STILL hemorrhaging support within the military despite the fact that you guys have complete control over the mass media?

    Maybe its time to try and think through the implications of all that is happening first, rather than just having to adjust to the coming events after they have fallen upon you!

  26. Anonymous. Says:

    Think Gilbert & Sullivan – mad commodore in charge of army.

  27. Budhau Says:

    You see Jean, it is you who has somehow “figured it out” I am a mole, paid operative, and the psy-ops, yada, yada, yada – and you do that because you don’t have anything else to defend you position – they have a saying in Fiji about playing the ball and not the man. So all that crap about my “mission’, my “handlers” and all that totally not relevant.

    Just like in the Honduran case – most of the time you and some others in here post crap – stuff where you don;t have your facts right or your reasoning is flawed – I point it out. That pisses you off and you go off on this personal attacks. Just because you are opposed to the regime, and I point out that you have your facts wrong – that does not necessarily translate into me working for the regime.

    You see, I tend to stay with the issues – for example on the Honduran case the issue was that regardless of the constitutional crisis, the military intervention was wrong. You support for the military intervention was also based on flawed reasoning – specially coming from someone who is opposed to military intervention in Fiji an d supports it in another country.

    You know you were wrong – and I had to beat it out of you – for your to admit that you were wrong.

    BTW – as a paid operative, don’t you think I should have been the one supporting the military intervention in Honduras – military as the guardian of the constitution – just like the military in Fiji as the “guardian of the national interest”. Isn’t that the expanded role the Frank is looking for.

    Well, I am happy to see that you admit that your initial endorsement of the Honduran military was wrong.

    So you see Jean – I don’t always try and make a case for the regime, what I usually do is point out that someone’s reasoning is flawed – and folks in here are generally anti-regime, and because I shoot down some of their arguments, they incorrectly conclude that I am pro-regime or coup supporter. That is exactly how you have come to the above conclusion that I am some mole.

    Now….lets look at some of the other issue that your raised.
    You wrote, “Now let us see you do the same! Let us hear you admit that the 2006 and 2009 Fiji coups were wrong in law and in fact!”

    Let us first look at the “wrong in law” aspect of it.

    Yes, the two coups were illegal and here is why I hold that view.
    What the military did in 2006 was unconstitutional – so the presumption always is that such acts are illegal unless there is a justification for such action. Usually in such cases there is only one defense (justification) – that it was necessary, that the military tries to justify its action based on the doctrine of necessity.
    Here, since the military was the one that created crisis, the defense based on the doctrine of Necessity does not apply – thus, since the military does not have a legal defense, its action was unlawful. Are we clear on that? The same reasoning applies to the abrogation of the constitution – that was unlawful also. All coups are presumed illegal unless the action can be justified under the law.

    There was another legal issue that was discussed in here at length, i.e., Whether the President had the reserve powers to do what he did – I agree with judge Gates that the President did have reserve powers to do what he did. I know that Gates decision was reversed on appeal – but having that opinion, does not make me a coup supporter – I am sure law students would be writing their thesis on this one for years to come.
    I also think that Qarase’s local lawyers, instead of going after what the President did, they should have gone after the actions of the military and as I have stated above, the military’s actions are presumed illegal, and they had no defense.

    As to whether the coups were morally wrong – I have always stated that all coups in Fiji – the 1987, 2000, 2006, 2009 were all morally wrong and unlawful.

    Have I made my self very clear – that I have opposed all coups in Fiji – unlike some folks. I have said that all along.

    So the issue here is not whether the coups were illegal – the issue that we may disagree on is where do you go from here or whether Chaudary conspired with Frank to pull the coup or did he come on board after the fact.

    You seem to be of the opinion that “that the military must return to barracks! That Fiji must return to a democratically-elected Government under the 1997 Constitution! And that Frank Bainimarama, Josefa Iloilo, and Aiyaz-Saiyad Khaiyum and their inner circle of co-conspirators must face a court of law on charges of treason!”

    Yes, in a perfect world that is what is supposed to happen – however, look at our history, did we do that in 1987, or in 2000 – NO.

    So sure, I would agree with you that that would be the right thing to do – that Bavadra should have been reinstalled at the PM after 1987, that the Chaudary government should have been allowed to serve out its five year term after Speight was arrested and that Qarase should be allowed to serve out his term also.

    But that does not seem to be how things are done in Fiji – So I like to have a more realistic view of what we can expect under the circumstances – being pragmatic rather than looking at what is legally right.

    If we can take on this military regime and defeat it, than we can take these guys to court, reinstall Qarase and do whatever else we can legally do. I think it would be wrong to even try and take on the military and trying defeat it – the violence and bloodshed ain’t worth it.

    Thus, there has to be a negotiated settlement – The first thing the needs to be negotiated is that the election date needs to be moved up – say to 2012. (the Qarase government is history, just like Bavadra and the Chaudary governments)

    The way it looks, Frank seems to have dug in as far as the new constitution and electoral system – so what we need to do is get the best possible constitution possible and then fine tune that constitution after the democratically elected government comes in. We got the 1990 constitution after the 87 coup, that was totally unacceptable to various segments of the population and they all worked on it and it took us seven years to get the more acceptable 1997 constitution, and now it seems that we can improve on that constitution also.

    Finally, if we are going to have a negotiated settlement – there must be an amnesty for the coup perpetrators. We gave amnesty to both Rabuka and Speight (Speight screwed his amnesty). No amnesty means no deal and we are back to square one – you better get you militia ready or call for foreign intervention and we will have Fijians shooting Fijians in the streets of Suva. Even if we bring about a total economic collapse, the military won’t go away without a amnesty – if they go down, they will take down Fiji with them.

    BTW – my position has always been the same – that is how we get out of this shit – the coup has happened, now the important think is where do we go from here.

    Now…..is my above explanation “completely undermining” my “own psy-ops mission that you are being paid and ordered to do – ie. deflecting and disrupting the Blogs, and protecting Frank/Mahen!”

    How is my position disrupting the Blogs? How is my position protecting Mahen/Frank?

    You see, whatever I have said on this Blog is all here – go do you research and show me how my position has not been consistent.
    Normally, when people don’t have any evidence, direct or circumstantial, to prove what they alleging, they shut up – others go a step further and apologize. So how did you figure out that I was getting paid by the regime or by Chaudary. How did you figure out that I support the coup. Why do you find my activities on this blog disruptive – because, you don’t have the ability to reason, and I usually point that out – I am sure that pisses you off – but that is your problem, not mine.

    BTW, I understand why you go off on this personal attacks – because you can keep the discussion focused on the issue – so you make me the issue.

    Here is few other things that I might as well point out.

    You wrote, “In that respect, the reasons the Honduran coup was wrong, has NO RELEVANCE to the Fiji situation!”

    The issue here was that you initially thought that the Honduran coup was right because the military was the “guardian of the constitution”. I pointed out that in the Fiji situation the military here also wants to be the guardian of the “national interest”. That is where the RELEVANCE issue comes in. What role should the military play in a democracy?

    You then wrote, “The Regime in Fiji is completely illegal and without any basis. So any act by the Fiji military to remove it would not fall foul of the legal prohibitions that fouled the Honduran soldiers when they tried to protect their Constitution.”

    OK – So if we had a legitimate military in Fiji, and the democratically elected government did something unconstitutional – say Qarase decided not include the FLP members in his cabinet as per the constitution – would it than be OK for the military to intervene as that “guardian of the constitution”.

    Now…do you see why your reasoning is flawed. (BTW – I think a military intervention would be wrong in both cases).

    You wrote, “So you are purposely confusing the loyalty of the Honduran troops to their own Constitution, with the legal strictures of how they should actually effect that loyalty.”

    No I am not trying to confuse anyone – all I am saying is that a military intervention was wrong and unnecessary – if there was a violation of the constitution, there was other legal and democratic means for dealing with it.

    It was you who tried to compare the actions of the Honduran military to that of the Fiji Military – that how great they were as compared to our boys.

    My comments had more to do with YOUR mindset – you don’t support military intervention when such problems can be resolved through legal channels.

    Jean, you wrote, “This Regime does not have any legal foundation for anything that it is doing! Neither do we have competent or independent courts that could make worthwhile or independently enforceable determinations on the matter (even if they were allowed to consider such). We don’t have any democratically accountable Government to respond to the peoples’ wishes at elections. And nor do we have an independent media that could make that democratic responsiveness last throughout the Government’s term.”

    OK – so has anyone said otherwise – you are not getting paid by the word, are you?

    You wrote, “All avenues of “legal” change and challenge have been removed. And all Constitutional means for it have been placed out of reach. That only leaves two options to the people of Fiji and her army – namely to allow the Regime to destroy itself and the nation, or restore the Constitution ourselves by direct action!”

    That “direct action” – so what do you propose that direct action should be – and if there were any such “action”, what do you think the “reaction” would be.

    Here is where you don’t think straight, you wrote, regarding your “direct action” – “ For a start, it would not go against any law of Fiji that is recognized either inside or outside our borders.”

    What law are you talking about – why would a coup against Frank be “illegal” – There would be no legal or moral issues if someone in the military pulled a successful coup on Frank. The problem I see is that Frank must have already prepared for such “direct action” thus it is the aftermath that I am worried about.

    You wrote, “Neither would it make our already reeling economy any worse off than Frank has already made it.”

    It seem that the plan so far been to destroy the economy – the withholding of the EU funds, ANZ discouraging tourists, all those sanctions – they are all there to push Frank and the economy off the cliff – and hopefully the masses will rise and bring down this regime.

    You wrote, “Meanwhile your claims to have always opposed coups are hollow. You could barely hide your glee at the ouster of the Qarase Government, and have basically tried to come up with every excuse under the sun ever since as to why it was OK, and why these coups were not like the others. You could barely wait for your MPC to show us all his true mettle in Government, but when he did, you reverted to what you do best – making all kinds of excuses as to why bad is good, and wrong is right.”

    Do you think the above requires a response? And nope, I have never changed my tune – not this time, not in 2000 and not in 1987.

    Hey Jean, if you think that I have changed my tune – that would be very simple, go back and find some post of mine that has me saying otherwise, if you cannot find any…than shut up.

    You wrote, “And aren’t you just a little bit frustrated that with all your fancy techniques, and clever instruments, that you still haven’t really got anywhere with your psy-ops, and that Frank is STILL hemorrhaging support within the military despite the fact that you guys have complete control over the mass media?”

    So who is this “you guys” – BTW the recognition of my “fancy techniques and clever instruments” – that is very flattering.

    Here is my deal Jean, you think twice before you post something in here – because if your reasoning is flawed or your facts are wrong – guess what, I WILL shoot it down – that does not make a coup supporter – it might help your ability for critical thinking.

    BTW – you can tell some tall tales – paid operative, psy-ops, mole, yada, yada, yada – very entertaining – when you don’t have anything on the issues, you go for the man.

    OK – now, lets get to the next issue.

  28. Anonymous. Says:

    @Budhau.
    Whatever their paying you’s 2 much – only feasable explanation is paid per word. You talk (write) a lot but don’t say (contribute) anything?
    Suggest non de plume’ Empty Tin.
    Consider novels? Short story telling? Cane Farming?

  29. magadog Says:

    @ Budhau

    Stuck in traffic or Chicken Curry in a Hurry?

  30. this is navoha Says:

    or consider writing script for http://www.redtube.com movies……very ideal for your calibre & intellect

  31. Ben St0ne Says:

    Badhau..dou vivutu sona mada ga na meadia cell ni mataivalu…

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