When Liberty becomes license dictatorship is firmly in place

The illegal regime of Voreqe Bhainimarama is hellbent on depriving the citizens of Fiji of everything and anything that would bring a skerrick of pleasure.
 
Nightclub,  Hotel, Cafe &  Restaurant owners pay licenses to operate, then if they intend to serve liquor have to pay a liquor license. These types of businesses cannot operate unless these licenses have been granted.
 
These establishments usually have ‘bouncers’ or door people who monitor the behaviours of the patrons and will step in to resolve a possible fracas that may spoil the enjoyment of those who have paid to be there or in more extreme moments turf the problematic ones out if they’ve caused harm
 
Why is this force-feeding of religion based on so called Christianity as perceived by the fool Tele ni a product of inbreeding, being taken into nightclubs where first of all patrons pay a fee to be allowed in, then if they want to eat or drink anything have to pay up or be ejected.
 
Since when did ‘nightclubbing’ or ‘clubbing’ lead to alcoholism and crime.
 
This is the mindset of people who cannot control themselves if they drink alcohol and are already on the path to live and lead a life crime anyway………………………..just as this illegal regime is, a bunch of degenerate criminals whose bravado can only be explained because they have the protection of guns, yes lethal weapons that noone else in Fiji has, otherwise the Prime Minister Laisenia Qarase and his SDL party would have gaoled Voreqe Bhainimarama by now and the Nation of Fiji not be suffering the ignominy of the sordid ignorant coupsters,
 
Sure, crime prevention is commendable but to use Christianity in a nightclub to preach the issue is rather far fetched as they will only cultivate a subversive alternative ethos.
 
The illegal regime are the miscreants who should be taking a good long look at themselves and the most appalling crimes they have committed.
 
The spirit of the People of Fiji is stronger than ever. Our silent protest against this illegal regime is more hurtful to them than they care to admit.
 
If tyranny, oppression, corruption, lack of due diligence and lack of good governance is the ig coupsters ethos We the People of Fiji will not be part of it, we do not abet criminals.
POWER TO THE PEOPLE

47 Responses to “When Liberty becomes license dictatorship is firmly in place”

  1. Mosese Says:

    Is it true? Someone told me that his cousin seen in Fiji “SYE” on a wall somewhere, which they say stands for SA YALA EKE. Has anyone seen it?? I read blogs all the time but I don’t write anything but I haven’t seen no blogging on it!!

  2. Budhau Says:

    The author above wrote, “Why is this force-feeding of religion based on so called Christianity as perceived by the fool Tele ni a product of inbreeding…”

    Why don’t you guys get it – that you should be fighting for a separation of church and state. So when they try to have Sunday bans – you should get up and oppose that. When they try and declare Fiji a Christian state, you should stand up and opposed it. So when they talk about the “Three Pillars of Fijian society: vanua, lotu and matanitu” – you have to decide how far are you willing to take that. So when they again start saying that Fiji should be constitutionally declared a Christian state, you should know which side of this debate you will be on.

    Watch out for the Methodist Church.

  3. sesau Says:

    Fijians are a confused bunch of people. Their blood ties is far more important than honesty,truth etc etc etc.Ni yadrna na veiwekani sa vakaleqai kemuni na liumuri.

  4. RelaxMan Says:

    agree with you two above but what is the complaint here about?? nothing of that sort mentioned above is happening in restaurants since its choca block most of the time!! most of my kai viti are eating out now that indicates a change in the kai noda lifestyle from traditional to moderab era kai noda and that makes me proud. Perherps the complaint is about nightclubs?? yes bouncers do make a problem but it is their job to hassel you and if you’re not all there or simply not man enough they will take advantage of you. But I cant get what the old chap(author) above is complaining about becuase it aint happening here in Suva, he must be in never, never land!!

  5. Dau Says:

    Sesau, Its that strong sense of blood ties the indigenous have, has been the restraint to anarchy or a free for all like we have happening in some African countries. When you talk about honesty etc, you betray your lack of depth in your understanding of the Indingenous culture. Our strong blood ties is the stabilizing factor of todays relative calm in the face of our politics of intrigue.

  6. senijiale Says:

    Hey Bud, u’re losing it buddy. Section 5 of the Constitution which your guys smartly abrogated and chucked out to the hens did RECOGNISE the separation of church and State. Here, I quote it for you :

    ” 5. Although religion and the State are separate, the people of the Fiji Islands acknowledge that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership”.

    Is that clear enuf?

    It’s nincompoops like Teleni & the rest of them IG piglets who’ve used it as a tool to effectively keep the masses under control esp. law enforcement personnel who pose as their biggest threat. I hear his brother and sisterinlaw are forever preaching/sharing their private, dirty linen to all and sundry. The extent these tragic lot of thieving losers wud go to, aye!

  7. iraqis Says:

    Budha can u see wat senijale wrote there???now u see it,,,its on the fucken constitution…..Budha caiti tamamu,sivia na gusumu,baku wavivi

  8. Asgrocky Says:

    The Ba’al Hadad on that cover page of the charter. Look around in Fiji, where else can they be found,eg. the Mobil oil, that red dot. The dots and the half moon usually in disguise. What relationship does this have with what Teleni stands for. Evangelising during working hours. Why does the IG give Teleni a free reign on this to the point FB and the Shaista woman came out in defense of him when he went ballistic over some Fiji- Indo policemen. FB and Shaista from different cultural backgrounds and religions. FB a catholic and Shaista a Muslim. Very interesting religions represented by these 2. What does Teleni hope to achieve. Is he trying to evangelise FIji? Is evangelising a personal thing for him or is it a job? If it’s a job who is the boss? Is a medal forthcoming for Teleni’s achievements in the religious rise? Who is he accountable to? V. Then there’s the 70 chiefs. What’s in the number? Why 70? What is signified by this number? Is this number a coincidence? Very sinister

  9. Asgrocky Says:

    Bhudau, I agree with you on this one. But I think its the catholics and the muslims that we have to watch for. The pope has been seen all over the world going into the mosque and kissing the quran. have seen that on the internet somewhere. Yes I do believe here is a very evil element slowly taking over, while FB and all the chaos he is creating is a diversion something else is going on. How do you fight something you don’t know? You can see but don’t know.

  10. RelaxMan Says:

    All these happenings being mentioned here on this site, is it really happening in Fiji, is it Factual or just Rumour Mongering??? can someone please answer, with actual realistic records of what actually happened!! maybe the blogger IRAQIS would like to enlighten me on this. I have seen a connection between what had been previously mentioned in the media to the bloggers on this site, please give yourselves a break and us the truth, if you going to blogg show actual historical recordings not what you badly dream of each day that will happen. Food for thought people….

  11. Asgrocky Says:

    Relax man, are you slow, you go around the pages critiquing and agreeing but have nothing yourself to offer. What does “Solivakasama” mean. Does it not mean discuss your thoughts or your opinions. Now that is a fact. Give yourself and us a break and give us something that you can really discuss with us for a change.

  12. sesau Says:

    Dau, there was anarchy in 1987 because of blood ties between Fijian extremism and the Fijian military- the victims were the Indians.In 2000, again – Fijian extremism and a section of the Fijian Military if not all – the victims were the Indians; 2006 takes a different turn well well well! Fijian extremism-they’ve all gone quiet!May be, the odds are stacked against them.Dou yadra nai taukei, sa kua so na liumuri!Ni vuli mai na levu ni yalowai kei na vucesa sa bikai kemuni tu.Na vuaviritaki ni Matanitu na ka e lolovira – Matanitu nei Chaudary se nei Qarase.Ni kakua ni totaka na ca!!!!!Ni digitaka na i liuliu e rawa ni vakavinakataka na bula e Viti.Sega ena vuku ni roka ni kulina,lotu cava, se tamata vakacava!Sa kua so na vaka cool cool ni cevata tu na mona ka sega ni rawa ni curu e dua na ka. Ni dikevi kemuni mada “deeep down”!

  13. bodyguard Says:

    the RFMF should be taken out. full stop.

    no matter how we debate this issue up down or sideways the soldiers must pay for the misery they caused the ppl of fiji. esp the fijian ppl.

    we must never forget this day.

    havent one noticed how the lamusona soldiers r being very friendly n warming up to the very ppl they liumuri, tortured, threatend, murdered.

    o na tarogi kina.

  14. bodyguard Says:

    leweni kua ni levu tiko nomu vosa …. tamata sona levu.

    o dro i vei…boci.

    o na tarogi kina.

  15. bodyguard Says:

    did driti do as we assumed.

    until the arsehole actually proves his the man he makes himself to be!! driti is the biggest lamusona arsehole rere cicilevu military officer in the RFMF.

    without his guns and his troops … Driti is a pussy.

    o na tarogi kina.

  16. Dau Says:

    A/grocky, Your observation of the number 70 is simply an over reaction. In the occult system of numerology 70 translates to a 7.(i.e. the sum of the digits 7+0=7) In some solemn kava presentation or rituals the num.7 has a significant connotation. In Kabala and other esoteric norms 7 has a spiritual connotation. If you think thats Sinister, then check what was the number of your response on this column when you first commented on the chiefs. I’ll say 7. Sinister Coincidence?? Now thats an omen for you.

  17. ex Fiji tourist Says:

    From The Australian

    Rudd warns Fiji leader to do right by country

    From correspondents in Auckland, New Zealand
    May 13, 2009 02:20pm

    KEVIN Rudd has issued a stern warning to Fiji’s determined military leader Frank Bainimarama to do the right thing by his troubled country.

    “He knows what he must do,” Australia’s Prime Minister says of Mr Bainimarama, in power since a 2006 coup and refusing to heed regional warnings to return Fiji to democracy.

    In an editorial today, Mr Rudd said it was “absurd” to delay elections by five years, and that Mr Bainimarama had been telling insiders it could take another five more.

    “This is the behaviour of a military junta,” he wrote.

    Fiji became the first country to be suspended from the regional Pacific Islands Forum this month after repeated failures to go to the polls.

    Mr Bainimarama last month cast aside Fiji’s constitution, sacked the judiciary, censored the media and set back elections.

    The military man has said the delay was necessary to reform an unjust electoral system, reforms Mr Rudd says Australia does not oppose in principle.

    It was more important whether Fijians want them, said Mr Rudd, but under current public and media censorship, it was a decision they didn’t have a say in.

    “Unfortunately at the present time the people of Fiji are unable to express their views freely, either through elected representatives or in the media,” he wrote.

    “In any event it is absurd to suggest that up to five more years are needed to prepare for elections.”

    The opinion piece was circulated to Fiji media but is unlikely to meet the regime’s criteria for “positive, unsensational” news.

    Other points made include what Mr Rudd called Mr Bainimarama’s “incalculable damage” to Fiji’s international reputation and its economy.

    Up to 40 per cent of Fijians were living in basic-needs poverty, he said.

    In closing, the Prime Minister said the forum’s door remained open to Fiji’s interim government in the hope the country can “quickly return to its place as a leader of our region”.

    “But the onus now is on Commodore Bainimarama to do the right thing. He knows what he must do.”

  18. Dau Says:

    Seasu, You’re a bit confused as to what anarchy means…..As for the indigenous having gone quiet, and maybe the odds are stacked against them, you’re once again confused. We are wiser this time around, we realise that empty vessels make a lot of noise so we choose to remain quiet and calm….We realised that: the last govt we voted in was not a Democratically elected Govt. but a Democratically elected Disaster. (something like the George Bush Disaster.) Dredre ga mo cegu mai tau.

  19. Asgrocky Says:

    Dau
    I cud swear ur stalking me. What is it?

  20. archiebald newton Says:

    Arsgrocky you seem to wander why Teleni was defended by Shaister and FB when he lambasted the Indian senior officers.Teleni is the heir apparent ie just waiting to step into the PM’s orCommander’s shoes to take up the cause,should something happen to FB.
    Teleni is still the Deputy Commander and has also not relinquished the post just like FB is for the Commander’s position.Teleni also sits in the IG Cabinet meetings unlike any of his predecessors.
    He has his office in Government buildings and not at Ratu Sukuna House or at Police HQ in 4 miles.At Government buildings his office is just one floor down from FB.
    He is the true brains trust and mastermind of the whole scenario.FB is just being pushed from behind.

  21. Nostradamus Says:

    And Teleni manipulates God to justify himself. The gates to Hell are beckoning.

  22. Budhau Says:

    Senjiale – thanks for reminding me about separation of church and State in Fiji. your quote from our constitution was:
    “5. Although religion and the State are separate, the people of the Fiji Islands acknowledge that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership”.

    The initial push was to declare Fiji a Christian state – when that failed, they put in this clause about God and all that. This is no different than those fundamentalists in the US trying to get prayer in school and the like – they try and make like – hey prayer is prayer, you can pray in any religion.

    You see Senijiale – what we should demand is that we put a WALL BETWEEN THE STATE AND CHURCH. The government must stay out of the business of religion and religious groups must stay out of the business of government.

    So you think those idol worshippers – they would qualify with “that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership”. – What God were they really talking about in the constitution.

    Here are two simple rules – 1) complete separation of Church and state – government should not promote any religion or God or whatever, and 2) that government should not get in the way of free exercise of religion – i.e., the government should not make any laws that gets in the way of people’s ability to practice their religion – whatever that religion may be.

  23. Dau Says:

    A/grocky, I assure you I’m just a liittle more observant and aware. Same goes for your noticing the 70 connection. As for Stalking, the answer is an emphatic no siree!………Nature is the stealthiest Stalker. Cheers!

  24. OjO Says:

    Etched against the darkness is the silhouette of those diabolical characters with their contorted lip of contempt, they lack sophistication an act of enormous imbecility even in the remotest carven of the earth they do not recognise their opprobrium.

    There’s a direct reciprocity between crimes committed and the consumption of alcohol among other things class A drugs for us to state categorically such correlation is negligible is indeed harebrained.

    While we must be tolerable of all creeds there must be a total separation of church and state unfortunately certain religious factions have in the past attempted or have succeeded in implementing by way stealth certain laws that runs contrary to the bill of rights.

    Many years ago this gentleman stood across from the old metropole hotel preaching every Saturday afternoon we stood by and listen to the word from the holy book it was not only refreshing but enlightened us young aspirants.

    So you see it’s all not that bad to take or surrender a bit of your time to listen even though of all places the night clubs they have just grown wiser these preachers.

  25. Nostradamus Says:

    Buddha,
    There is a role for the church when the government starts violating the God given rights of the people as human beings. Normally, church and state should be separate, but when Satanists take over the government, it is a different matter. This is not a government, as such, but a gang of thieves and murderers, aka SINNERS operating under a disciple of Satan himself, the mad rabid dog Voreqe

  26. Budhau Says:

    Nostra, you idiot, people do both good and evil stuff – God, it there was a god, has nothing to do with Fijian politics.
    There ain’t no “God given rights”.

    Usually this is how it always starts – sort like “my god can kick your god’s arse”.

    Religion is a very personal thing – and I would rather we keep it that way.

    “With or without religion, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things takes religion.” – Steven Weinberg, Nobel laureate physicist

  27. Willy Says:

    Is the censor Fiji Times sleeping on the wheel? Ana needs to be re-educated in the army camp for this insightful article:

    Airline feels pinch
    By ANA NIUMATAIWALU
    Thursday, May 14, 2009

    AIR Pacific staff will take a 10 per cent paycut effective immediately for three months following discussions between the Transport Workers Union, Fiji Pilots Association and management.

    In a statement released yesterday, airline chief executive John Campbell said an agreement had been reached by all three parties.

    He said the executive management, including him, had taken a 15 per cent paycut while management and contracted staff had a 10 per cent paycut for the next six months. He said this was subject to review after three months.

    Mr Campbell said Air Pacific had experienced significant downturns in overall business while air cargo rates and airfares were at a historically low level, resulting in substantial reduced income for the first six months of the year.

    “I am very proud and humbled by the willingness of our staff to understand and accommodate the challenging circumstances we face,” he said. “This shows maturity and a generous spirit that will greatly help Air Pacific through troubled times.”

    Mr Campbell said Air Pacific’s major costs were incurred in US dollars.

    He said all offshore costs and US dollar expenditure had increased following the 20 per cent devaluation of the Fiji dollar in April.

    He said it was not expected that revenue from sales made outside Fiji would compensate for the increased costs for at least three months leading to a challenging cash flow position for Air Pacific.

    Meanwhile, TWU secretary Kamlesh Kumar said his members were not pleased with the move but accepted it instead of job losses.

    “We have agreed to a 10 per cent paycut over a period of three months while the pilots association agreed to a period of six months,” he said.

    “My members are not pleased that we have taken this stand but they understand that if we did not agree to it, there would be job losses.”

  28. navosavakadua Says:

    Suddenly the penny dropped in Frank’s tiny mind. If I lock Lasaro up, I can be sure that there will be a march and there will be protests. They’ll be marching and protesting to free him.

    And if the Methodists march, what next? Others will see what’s happening and they’ll be marching too.

    Frank knows his troops will not fire on the Methodist church members demanding that he free their man of God, not just because his troops are mostly Methodist, no, they won’t fire because he doesn’t trust most of them with bullets.

    Frank’s might arm his protection people, but can he trust all of the rank and file? He hasn’t forgotten the hasty exit from QEB via the cassava patch in November 2000.

  29. warrior prince Says:

    I salute Rev Lasaro for standing up to these bullies. Lets put our hands together and fight these bullies the hard way. God bless Fiji. We have been bullied for too long. Enough is enough.

  30. warrior prince Says:

    Bodyguard you summed up “These Lamusona ” juntas pretty well .Hiding behind guns. They are a bunch of bullies. A true Fijian man don’t bully women.
    Sounds like Bud and whoever supports these bullies in these blog site are some of the very people bullying our fijian brothers and sisters. Hiding behind guns you bunch of ” Sonalevus”( BIGARSE) as we say in Fiji.
    I will be joining my brothers and anti coup supporters in a protest march in Aussie coming up soon to support all my brothers and sisters back home in our continuing support for the freedom of our people.
    God bless Fiji.

  31. Asgrocky Says:

    Budhau says:

    Bhudau says:
    “With or without religion, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things takes religion.” – Steven Weinberg, Nobel laureate physicist

    And so begs the question Bhudau.
    Why do people do the things they do? Good or evil. We all want to do good. But we find ourselves doing evil. Why? because there is a war within the self. The spirit is willing to do good but the flesh is weak wants gratification. And so they war against each other. There is a war going on in every person. Spirit versus flesh, good versus evil. Take choices for example. To do or not to do. Now what is this evil. Evil is that thing that is called sin. What is sin? It is the transgression of the Ten Commandments, the Law of God. These Ten Laws point out what you have done wrong. You don’t know that you do wrong unless a law says you have done wrong. You have trespassed the law. These Laws are printed in your heart. The big question, how and when did sin originate to make humans the way we are?

  32. Asgrocky Says:

    Bhudau
    You are an intelligent man your research skills and general knowledge are exceptional. I’m sure you will find the answer.

  33. Budhau Says:

    Asgrocky,

    All that Christian shit in you post – when you talk about God, Christianity is not the only answer.

    Anyway, I don’t believe in that crap – Christian or otherwise.

    I think one can be good without God.

    BTW – the more relevant issue here is religion getting mixed up in politics. It seems that the Methodists are getting more involved in trying to appeal to the Fijians to stand up against the regime – and that is dangerous.

    As to whether there is good without God – why don’t just google it – and we can make those arguments on both sides.

  34. Asgrocky Says:

    Bhudau
    What I’ve written is something I found I can relate to.
    Anyone can put any kind of information on googles but there is only one truth out there and its for every man to search for it. I search when I can find the time. I believe if everyone find that truth, then there will be love, peace, harmony, unity, everything we all want.
    Anyway I just read the Lasaro guy is in custody. I would like to know what the Teleni man is going to do about it. If a brother is in trouble would you not move heaven and earth to help him? A brother in Christianity is someone of the same faith. This should be interesting.

  35. Cama Says:

    If only Budhau can be here in the year 1835 to witness what God did to savage and cannibal Fijians.

    We must stand up to people like Budhau who thinks that Christianity is not the answer. we talk smart now when the going is smooth but you have to be in the shoes of the missionaries who risk their lives for the sake of Fiji and the Fijians.

  36. Cama Says:

    It must not be forgotten that Christianity shall be recognised as the pioneer of civilization in Fiji.

  37. Budhau Says:

    Cama, most peoples have a savage, cannibal past and they have all become “civilized” – with or without Christianity.
    If the Muslims had invaded Fiji a few centuries earlier, all these Fijians would probably be following Islam – and you don’t have to go that far – look at Malaysia and Indonesia – see how close you came to becoming a Muslim.

    Cama – you missed my point – I did not say Christianity is not the answer – what I said was that religion is not the answer. I am also of the opinion that religion is something very personal and that is how you should keep. We should not mix religion and politics.

    It seems that anyone who goes to war claims that God is on his side.

    When you start talking about “missionaries who risk their lives for the sake of Fiji and the Fijians” and all that – to tame the savages – that, I finding insulting.

    Those missionaries probably thought that the Fijian savages were a inferior race that needed taming – sort of make them more humanized, civilized and Christianized.

    I think with or without Christianity, the Fijian culture would have evolved – maybe not in the same manner, but still the Fijians today would not have been the same people as they were before the arrival of the missionaries.

    All societies evolve – so please don’t insult the Fijian people.

  38. senijiale Says:

    Hey Asgrocky, I think you were on to something there – did u note that some poof-stalkers b.k.a LIARS, just love hanging around SV like a bad smell! Like their cheerleader Lewinsky, u can tell right away the sec they open their big blabbermouths that they’re exhibiting symptoms of foot-in-the-mouth disease… like that Ba…Ba…Bai and Da…Da…Dai! hehe!

  39. senijiale Says:

    OK to you Bud my blog buddy. First of all let me ask you- didn’t yr Nani tell you never to pause then restart a conversation on an important issue? bcoz that’s always yr significant other’s prerogative, not yours bollywog! Okay, u may now fastforward back to the 21st century, in here, I give you a level playing field, so all gloves are off, you may say as your heart pleases!

    Hmmm… I’ve noted that every once in a while when i leave you to blabber on for a bit, you almost get to answer you own questions! Yes, how I love that word evolve, evolve, evolve! – hey that shall be the word of the day, every day in fact for the pig & piglets once they’re accommodated in Naboro Prisons.

    U said =

    “The initial push was to declare Fiji a Christian state – when that failed, they put in this clause about God and all that. This is no different than those fundamentalists in the US trying to get prayer in school and the like – they try and make like – hey prayer is prayer, you can pray in any religion. You see Senijiale – what we should demand is that we put a WALL BETWEEN THE STATE AND CHURCH. The government must stay out of the business of religion and religious groups must stay out of the business of government. So you think those idol worshippers – they would qualify with “that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership”. – What God were they really talking about in the constitution.

    Here are two simple rules – 1) complete separation of Church and state – government should not promote any religion or God or whatever, and 2) that government should not get in the way of free exercise of religion – i.e., the government should not make any laws that gets in the way of people’s ability to practice their religion – whatever that religion may be”.

    First of all, that was a whole lot of jumbled up hogwash and you know it. Fiji isn’t 1st world United States of Great America and even then, it’ll be interesting to know just what percentage of their population are hard-core secularists that you seem to be promoting.

    Here, pls re-read your fav section 5 of the abrogated “1997 Constitution” w/out moving yr lips –

    ” 5. Although religion and the State are separate, the people of the Fiji Islands acknowledge that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership”.

    What’s that word of the day again? Yes, that’s the essence of section 5 (and the entire Constitution for that matter). Remember how one of the architects of the Constitution Prof. Brij Lal said that the Constitution was a ‘living document, a ‘work-in-progress’, an evolving document that over time, would be adjusted accordingly to what/how the people wished themselves to be governed.

    This was not some 10comandments set in a 2 stone tablet that Moses picked up from some burning bush! Still, your guys like wacece Shaista quickly jumped onto the Pigs train in a bid to fastforward ‘progress’ like there was no tomorrow! End result = fastforward regress. Big time.

    Yes Bud, like you, we the PEOPLE, also believe in the separation of church/mosque/temple/vaivai tree and State (u correctly noted right there Bud that no particular religion was singled out by the 3 WISE MEN – Prof Brij Lal, Sir Tomasi Vakatora and Sir Paul Reeves) as they, in their profound wisdom, intentionally did not raise the bar too high or left it too low so that we the PEOPLE, could not perfect/resolve this issue outside of the Constitution, (like your guys are attempting to BLUFF thru). End result – your guys will now make things far worse for the people OR more likelier (due t their pea-brains), ‘ape’ the provisions of the abrogated Constitution under the guise of semantics. They make me sick to the core.

    Here READ mada yani the Preamble of the Constitution whilst i make a cuppa tea =

    “WE, THE PEOPLE OF THE FIJI ISLANDS,

    SEEKING the blessing of God who has always watched over these islands:

    RECALLING the events in our history that have made us what we are, especially the settlement of these islands by the ancestors of the indigenous Fijian and Rotuman people; the arrival of forebears of subsequent settlers, including Pacific Islanders, Europeans, Indians and Chinese; the conversion of the indigenous inhabitants of these islands from heathenism to Christianity through the power of the name of Jesus Christ; the enduring influence of Christianity in these islands and its contribution, along with that of other faiths, to the spiritual life of Fiji:

    ACKNOWLEDGING our unique constitutional history:
    (a) first, the Deed of Cession of 10 October 1874 when Ratu Seru Epenisa Cakobau, Tui Viti and Vunivalu, together with the High Chiefs of Fiji, signifying their loyalty and devotion to Her Most Gracious Majesty, Queen Victoria, and their acceptance of the divine guidance of God and the rule of law, ceded Fiji to Great Britain, which cession was followed in November 1879 by the cession to Great Britain of Rotuma by the Chiefs of Rotuma;
    (b) secondly, our becoming an independent sovereign state when Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II promulgated the Fiji Independence Order 1970 under which the Fiji Constitution of 1970 came into being;
    (c) thirdly, the abrogation of that Constitution in 1987 by the Constitution Abrogation Decree 1987;
    (d) fourthly, after a period of 3 years, the giving to Fiji of the 1990 Constitution by His Excellency the President, Ratu Sir Penaia Kanatabatu. Ganilau, Tui Cakau, GCMG, KCVO, KBE, DSO, KSt J, ED, with the blessings and approval of the Great Council of Chiefs;
    (e) fifthly, the review of that Constitution undertaken under its provisions; and
    (f) sixthly, the conferral by the High Chiefs of Fiji in their abundant wisdom of their blessings and approval on this Constitution:

    RECOGNISING that the descendants of all those who chose to make their homes in these islands form our multicultural society:

    AFFIRMING the contributions of all communities to the well-being of that society, and the rich variety of their faiths, traditions, languages and cultures:

    TAKING PRIDE in our common citizenship and in the development of our economy and political institutions:

    COMMITTING ourselves anew to living in harmony and unity, promoting social justice and the economic and social advancement of all communities, respecting their rights and interests and strengthening our institutions of government:

    REAFFIRMING our recognition of the human rights and fundamental freedoms of all individuals and groups, safeguarded by adherence to the rule of law, and our respect for human dignity and for the importance of the family,

    WITH GOD AS OUR WITNESS, GIVE OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION”

    Sigh… CCF funds would hve been better spent on educating the people of their Constitution for they wud hve put up a better fight for it than the overpaid Rev. Whisky.

  40. senijiale Says:

    OK to you Bud my dear blog buddy. First of all let me ask you- didn’t yr Nani tell you never to pause then restart a conversation on an important issue? bcoz that’s always yr significant other’s prerogative, not yours bollywog! Okay, u may now fastforward back to the 21st century, in here, I give you a level playing field, so all gloves are off, you may say as your heart pleases!

    Hmmm… I’ve noted that every once in a while when i leave you to blabber on for a bit, you almost get to answer you own questions! Yes, how I love that word evolve, evolve, evolve! – hey that shall be the word of the day, every day in fact for the pig & piglets once they’re accommodated in Naboro Prisons.

    U said =

    “The initial push was to declare Fiji a Christian state – when that failed, they put in this clause about God and all that. This is no different than those fundamentalists in the US trying to get prayer in school and the like – they try and make like – hey prayer is prayer, you can pray in any religion. You see Senijiale – what we should demand is that we put a WALL BETWEEN THE STATE AND CHURCH. The government must stay out of the business of religion and religious groups must stay out of the business of government. So you think those idol worshippers – they would qualify with “that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership”. – What God were they really talking about in the constitution.

    Here are two simple rules – 1) complete separation of Church and state – government should not promote any religion or God or whatever, and 2) that government should not get in the way of free exercise of religion – i.e., the government should not make any laws that gets in the way of people’s ability to practice their religion – whatever that religion may be”.

    First of all, that was a whole lot of jumbled up hogwash and you know it. Fiji isn’t 1st world United States of Great America and even then, it’ll be interesting to know just what percentage of their population are hard-core secularists that you seem to be promoting.

    Here, pls re-read your fav section 5 of the abrogated “1997 Constitution” w/out moving yr lips –

    ” 5. Although religion and the State are separate, the people of the Fiji Islands acknowledge that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership”.

    What’s that word of the day again? Yes, that’s the essence of section 5 (and the entire Constitution for that matter). Remember how one of the architects of the Constitution Prof. Brij Lal said that the Constitution was a ‘living document, a ‘work-in-progress’, an evolving document that over time, would be adjusted accordingly to what/how the people wished themselves to be governed.

    This was not some 10comandments set in a 2 stone tablet that Moses picked up from some burning bush! Still, your guys like wacece Shaista quickly jumped onto the Pigs train in a bid to fastforward ‘progress’ like there was no tomorrow! End result = fastforward regress. Big time.

    Yes Bud, like you, we the PEOPLE, also believe in the separation of church/mosque/temple/vaivai tree and State (u correctly noted right there Bud that no particular religion was singled out by the 3 WISE MEN – Prof Brij Lal, Sir Tomasi Vakatora and Sir Paul Reeves) as they, in their profound wisdom, intentionally did not raise the bar too high or left it too low so that we the PEOPLE, could not perfect/resolve this issue outside of the Constitution, (like your guys are attempting to BLUFF thru). End result – your guys will now make things far worse for the people OR more likelier (due t their pea-brains), ‘ape’ the provisions of the abrogated Constitution under the guise of semantics. They make me sick to the core.

    Here READ mada yani the Preamble of the Constitution whilst i make a cuppa tea =

    “WE, THE PEOPLE OF THE FIJI ISLANDS,

    SEEKING the blessing of God who has always watched over these islands:

    RECALLING the events in our history that have made us what we are, especially the settlement of these islands by the ancestors of the indigenous Fijian and Rotuman people; the arrival of forebears of subsequent settlers, including Pacific Islanders, Europeans, Indians and Chinese; the conversion of the indigenous inhabitants of these islands from heathenism to Christianity through the power of the name of Jesus Christ; the enduring influence of Christianity in these islands and its contribution, along with that of other faiths, to the spiritual life of Fiji:

    ACKNOWLEDGING our unique constitutional history:
    (a) first, the Deed of Cession of 10 October 1874 when Ratu Seru Epenisa Cakobau, Tui Viti and Vunivalu, together with the High Chiefs of Fiji, signifying their loyalty and devotion to Her Most Gracious Majesty, Queen Victoria, and their acceptance of the divine guidance of God and the rule of law, ceded Fiji to Great Britain, which cession was followed in November 1879 by the cession to Great Britain of Rotuma by the Chiefs of Rotuma;
    (b) secondly, our becoming an independent sovereign state when Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II promulgated the Fiji Independence Order 1970 under which the Fiji Constitution of 1970 came into being;
    (c) thirdly, the abrogation of that Constitution in 1987 by the Constitution Abrogation Decree 1987;
    (d) fourthly, after a period of 3 years, the giving to Fiji of the 1990 Constitution by His Excellency the President, Ratu Sir Penaia Kanatabatu. Ganilau, Tui Cakau, GCMG, KCVO, KBE, DSO, KSt J, ED, with the blessings and approval of the Great Council of Chiefs;
    (e) fifthly, the review of that Constitution undertaken under its provisions; and
    (f) sixthly, the conferral by the High Chiefs of Fiji in their abundant wisdom of their blessings and approval on this Constitution:

    RECOGNISING that the descendants of all those who chose to make their homes in these islands form our multicultural society:

    AFFIRMING the contributions of all communities to the well-being of that society, and the rich variety of their faiths, traditions, languages and cultures:

    TAKING PRIDE in our common citizenship and in the development of our economy and political institutions:

    COMMITTING ourselves anew to living in harmony and unity, promoting social justice and the economic and social advancement of all communities, respecting their rights and interests and strengthening our institutions of government:

    REAFFIRMING our recognition of the human rights and fundamental freedoms of all individuals and groups, safeguarded by adherence to the rule of law, and our respect for human dignity and for the importance of the family,

    WITH GOD AS OUR WITNESS, GIVE OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION”

    Sigh… CCF funds would hve been better spent on educating the people of their Constitution for they wud hve put up a better fight for it than the overpaid Rev. Whisky.

  41. Budhau Says:

    Senijiale,
    You keep bringing up that section 5 – “Although religion and the State are separate, the people of the Fiji Islands acknowledge that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership.”

    You know why that was put in there, because the fundamentalist Christian lobby, the right wing of the Methodist Church that has campaigned for the establishment of Fiji as a Christian state – that the Constitution should establish Christianity as the official religion of the State. BTW they are still working on that. Then they try and tie in the religion with Fijian supremacy – the god given right of the Fijian rule Fiji – thus, an Indian PM is generally unacceptable – and that leads to coups. You see how all this is connected.

    Also note that when they are talking about “worship and reverence of God” – you know what they are talking about? none of that idol worship crap- right?

    You also wrote, “Fiji isn’t 1st world United States of Great America and even then, it’ll be interesting to know just what percentage of their population are hard-core secularists that you seem to be promoting.”

    Yes, Senijiale, the US constitution has that separation of state and religion. I think that was put in there about 200 years ago. So, while Fiji may not be like the US today – I think our thinking on this concept of separation of church/state must have caught up with what the American’s were thinking 200 years ago.

    The need for a secular system in Fiji is even more – when 30% plus of the population is Methodists and about the same are Hindus and then you throw in a mix of all other religions.

    As for that Brij Lal’s remarks about ‘living document, that was taken from the book titled “The Living Constitution”. I totally agree that the constitution should be amended once in while as circumstances change.

    That is why 200 years ago the American’s came up with a constitution that has separation of Church and state – and for Fiji, over that 200 years, things have changed to where we can also incorporate that concept in out Constitution – Fiji constitution already states the separation of church and state – but than they go about stating in there stuff about God, like:
    WE, THE PEOPLE OF THE FIJI ISLANDS, SEEKING the blessing of God who has always watched over these islands.

    You want to seek Gods blessing, go do it on a Sunday – why put it in the constitution.

    As for “God who has always watched over these islands” – you sure about that, I think God must have lost his focus on Fiji since about 1987 – we must have done something wrong – I think we have allowed the continuation of idol worshiping on our sacred land – that is why. You see why SHE hasn’t watched over Dafur – and those poor third world bastards – how come God has not watched over them – maybe that must have something to do with them not accepting Christ as their savior.

    You see how this God and Religion idea in the constitution, a legal document, gets rather silly – that burning bush and talking snake and all that we should keep those things in their right place.

    BTW you give too much credit to the “wise men” with profound wisdom – Brij Lal and Vakatora – I think Brij Lal was well connected to Jai Ram Reddy and Vakatora on the other side – that is how they got that job. Nothing against these folks – I just think they are no better or worse than many other guys who could have got the same job.

    Finally, you keep referring to this “you guys” – hey I am just one person with an opinion. I haven’t seen anyone else coming up with any suggestions on trying to change the religious aspects of the constitution – on the contrary – those “you guys” that you mention – I think “them guys” would rather keep away from this sensitive discussion – sort of “why rock the boat” attitude. As far as they are concerned, you can even put in the ten commandments in the constitution – sort of the Sharia law.

  42. Dau Says:

    The Constitution is abrogated, its Finito. Theres a new constitution in the making. We’re all looking foward to that. The pessimists will go on vehemently rejecting anything and everything our Govt does. Pessimists when looking at a rose only see the thorns, oblivious to the beautiful rose. Some even see a beautiful gardenia growing thorns. Av a good day guys!

  43. senijiale Says:

    Ok so where were we Bud? Yes, I keep citing section 5 exclusively 4 yr benefit since u obviously still can’t grasp its meaning or u’re choosing 2 ignore it .

    Here’s yr feeble explanatn on section 5 of the Constitution…

    “You know why that was put in there, because the fundamentalist Christian lobby, the right wing of the Methodist Church that has campaigned for the establishment of Fiji as a Christian state – that the Constitution should establish Christianity as the official religion of the State. BTW they are still working on that. Then they try and tie in the religion with Fijian supremacy – the god given right of the Fijian rule Fiji – thus, an Indian PM is generally unacceptable – and that leads to coups. You see how all this is connected.”

    I respond – OMG, thats a fallacy, which part of Section 5 of the “1997 Constitution” – “Although religion and the State are separate, the people of the Fiji Islands acknowledge that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership” –

    – makes reference to Christianity? Or a particular faith for that matter?

    Problem with tinpot dictator Vore and his regime’s supporters like you (who think they’re God almighty) is that u take the people of this country to be little guinea pigs that nid 2 b sorted out and placed into neat little categories so that we can all live happily ever after. Er welcome to the real world…

    Funny thing is that u seem fixated on the methodist church when it’s now a glaring, embarrassing fact (for many, many law abiding catholics) that just as the Methodist church had done in the past, the Catholic church in Fiji have also lost that high ground thru their complicity – a grave error of judgment (both morally and legally) that will cost them severely. And if i recall correctly, the Anglican bishop also came out in support of the Dec06 coup and then later tried to recant in an opinion piece in the Fiji Times -sa bera… too much, too late!

    The people had looked upon their religion heads as leaders and shepherds who ought to hold themselves to the same standards that they wud expect of others, yet sadly, our recent history has shown otherwise. And these particular churches will hve some way to go in order to regain that lost credibility, amongst other things.

    Then you said Bud –
    “Yes, Senijiale, the US constitution has that separation of state and religion. I think that was put in there about 200 years ago. So, while Fiji may not be like the US today – I think our thinking on this concept of separation of church/state must have caught up with what the American’s were thinking 200 years ago”.

    Tut..tut! You too much lasulasu Bud. Just a quick look thru Shaista’s fav source – Wikipedia, I noted that the ‘separation of church and state’ in the United States of Great America was only a recent development, a couple of decades ago in fact, not some 200 years ago, hehe! Here, i quote it for u:

    “The phrase “separation of church and state” became a definitive part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947), a case which dealt with a state law that allowed the use of government funds for transportation to religious schools. While the ruling upheld the state law allowing taxpayer funding of transportation to religious schools as constitutional, Everson was also the first case to hold the Establishment Clause applicable to the state legislatures as well as Congress, based upon the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment”.

    It was the fundamental right to freedom of religion that was established over 200years ago as part of the Establishment Clause aka as Amndmnt I! hehe! Enuf with the lasulasu alredy! Jon Apted must be laughing at you!

    Alrite, back to yr fav Section 5, that last bit which states “… the people of the Fiji Islands acknowledge that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership” –

    First of all, to my mind, those words merely reflected the realities at this stage of our evolution. I think it’s safe to say that approx 95% of our population are people of FAITH and we know that faith is self-sustaining. Didn’t those broad principles of democracy, rule of law and good governance that we now know of, evolve from or were derived from common themes found across the world’s major religions?

    Secondly, those words didn’t necessarily mean or even imply that religion and politics shall or may mix. Not at all. It merely refers to worship and reverence of God as ‘sources’ of good govt and leadership – as to what extent and degree that it is to be reflected in the governance of this country and its people – that is always FOR THE PEOPLE to deliberate and decide upon and thereafter make the necessary changes -all within the rule of law!

    Yes Bud, I’m glad that you agree that “the Constitution should be amended once in a while as circumstances change” – the WHAT & HOW to do it are clearly stipulated in the Constitution, remember?! Certainly not in the manner that “your guys” have gone (COUP DEC06 in the name of corruption,multiracialism blah blah), a bloody convenient cover- up … THEN they later abrogated the Constitution formally when they realized they were clearly staring at life at Naboro maximum prison alongside George Speight almost immediately, for their treasonous and murderous acts!

    Oh yes, the people aren’t fools, THEY KNOW… they’re not stupid as your stupid guys think they are. They do understand the SICK TRUTH behind the Dec06 coup despite the layers of lies your guys keep churning out at them.

    THEY KNOW… and you know that they know… that your guys are all about SELF-PRESERVATION and MONEY. And btw what did the world learn from Watergate that caused the downfall of your home country’s President then?

    Yes Bud – FOLLOW THE MONEY! FOLLOW THE MONEY!

    And no I did not make a mistake – it is YOU AND YOUR GUYS. You’ve been at this for almost 2 years now, u’ve tried to appear neutral and 2 yr credit, u do bring up some stuff which are legitimate (mostly concerning the past coups and its players) … still, its been crystal clear to me at least that you do not sit on the fence. Just because your generation did not stand up to these common criminals in 1987 and 2000 does not mean that this generation would follow suit!

  44. Budhau Says:

    Senijiale – when I tried to explain to you that the above was put in the constitution because the fundamentalist Christian lobby, the right wing of the Methodist Church had campaigned for the establishment of Fiji as a Christian state – that the Constitution should establish Christianity as the official religion of the State. When that was not acceptable, they settled for the above.

    Your respond to my explanation was, “OMG, thats a fallacy, which part of Section 5 of the “1997 Constitution” – “Although religion and the State are separate, the people of the Fiji Islands acknowledge that worship and reverence of God are the source of good government and leadership”

    You seem to be making the argument that since Christianity was not mentioned, thus, we can not blame the Methodists – that them mention of all that religious stuff in the constitution is all universal stuff.

    BTW – did you ever see anyone from the Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Seven Day, the Mormons, the Catholics and others asking for the “God” clause in the constitution? The proponents of the inclusion of God in the constitution was the Methodist Church.

    So you see Senijiale, your argument that the “God” mentioned in the constitution has nothing to do with Christianity is rather silly – you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

    On the contrary – I think that if any attempt was ever made to incorporate all those other religions into anything such as the constitution – I am sure the Methodist Church and maybe even you would be out there with … “Lord Jesus, have mercy on us. We shall have no other God before you”.

    My second point was, when you referred to me as you guys, you implied that there was some concerted effort on the part of these “you guys” to change some of the religious aspects of the constitution. You are wrong – this my secular atheist point of view – I don’t think there are folks out there trying make these changes to the constitution – on the contrary, most people would rather leave this alone rather than deal with the militant Christians at this time.

    Now, the next issue that you raised, the US Constitution, is slightly above my pay scale but I will take a shot at it it.

    On the US Constitution, you wrote, “Tut..tut! You too much lasulasu Bud. Just a quick look thru Shaista’s fav source – Wikipedia, I noted that the ’separation of church and state’ in the United States of Great America was only a recent development, a couple of decades ago in fact, not some 200 years ago, hehe! Here, i quote it for u:

    “The phrase “separation of church and state” became a definitive part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947), a case which dealt with a state law that allowed the use of government funds for transportation to religious schools. While the ruling upheld the state law allowing taxpayer funding of transportation to religious schools as constitutional, Everson was also the first case to hold the Establishment Clause applicable to the state legislatures as well as Congress, based upon the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment”.

    Boy that is real heavy – the Establishment Clause, State Law (as opposed to federal law), the fourteenth amendment, Due Process Clause and all that – that is heavy duty.

    The point that you seem to be making is that I was wrong about separation of Church and state being around for 200 years – and this stuff has been around since about 1947.

    Well, let me try an make it as simple as I can and show you why you are wrong and I am right (as usual).

    First, the US Constitution protects the individuals against the actions of the federal government. (mostly – there are a few exceptions – has to do with slavery – where the constitutional amendment made it illegal to own slaves etc.)

    Next – the Establishment Clause, that deals with separation of Church and state has been around for more than 200 years, it was adopted in 1791. Therefore, the Federal government could not violate the Establishment Clause since than. If was Thomas Jefferson who first came up with that “wall between Church and state” line.

    What the fourteenth amendment does it applies the US constitution to states through the Due Process clause – the the US constitution not only applies to the actions of the federal government, but through the fourteenth amendment, it applies to the actions of the state governments.

    Below you have to distinguish state – state as in a government (Fiji, NZ, Aust are states as opposed to state as in California)

    The issue in Everson was, not Separation of Church and State as it relates to the Federal government, but what types of actions of the STATES like California can also violate the separation of Church and State as stated in the Establishment clause – what Everson decision did was to define some types of actions of state governments that clearly violate the establishment clause as oppposed to actions of the federal government.

    Do you get it – the Separation of Church and State, as stated in the US Constitution has been around for more than 200 years – and the federal government could not violate that.
    Are you with me so far?

    Next, your wrote, “It was the fundamental right to freedom of religion that was established over 200years ago as part of the Establishment Clause aka as Amndmnt I! hehe! Enuf with the lasulasu alredy! Jon Apted must be laughing at you!”

    Wrong again – more than 200 years ago, the US constitution had two clauses relating to religion – the “Establishment Clause” and the “Free Exercise Clause.”

    The Free Exercise Clause is the one that safeguards personal liberty while the Establishment Clause deals with government action – so the two complement each other.

    BTW – Senijiale, I did not use Wikipedia to do my research, however, most google stuff would tell you that I am right – as long as you have some understanding of the US Constitutional law, you should be able to figure this one out – that the separation of Church and state has been around in the US for more that 200 years.

    If this is not clear, I can understand – this is probably what the teach at the end of a first year of constitutional law in the US.

    What you should take from this is that the separation of Church and State has been around in the US for more than 200 years – that issue in Everson was what your state such as California could do that would violate the federal constitution.

    Oh and that remark around my generation – just because I know history that does not say which generation I am from – I better not start talking about the sugar cane farmers in the 20’s.

  45. OjO Says:

    What do you know about the 1959 Fiji Oil Workers’ Strike.

  46. Budhau Says:

    Ojo, I am more familiar with the cane belt – the 1959- 60 sugar cane troubles.

    But wasn’t that when they figured out that Anthony was a communist and that they should get him to the US asap – and of course our boy Mohammed Tora was out there – hasn’t he been working for the Americans ever since.
    …and I was posted right there at the corner of Princes and Margaret Streets, as a junior police officer.

  47. Dau Says:

    Budhau, I see the constitution topic has gotten really testy now that the Florist has become a Constitusional expert overnight. It (Florist) smells a bad smell hanging around it… yet It deals with one of the most aromic of flowers. How ironic ! I attribute that to its association with plastic flowers(no aroma) and not the real thing. That bad smell is emanating from Its “self inflicted festering wound”… This florist must be a plastic freak. It uses a plastic nom de plume…..Its also a M.D….. Its diagnosed some specific writers as having “foot in the mouth” disease…. If it examined itself, It would realize its suffering from, “Foot in the Butt” disease. In this case it was Frank’s boot that may have deprived it of its plush job and Its present predicament and misery; or probably Its own boot, booted itself into this sorry state of a pessimistic pooftish specimen. Aaaah! forgot to put my gloves on, like to have it on when I go and shake the hand of that politician in the cloth. Cheers!

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