FEAR OR LOVE

Fear and Love are two of the most basic and powerful human emotions. As they spread from person to person, they can inspire such extremes of behaviour as killing one another or dying for one another. Considering that the fundamental importance of love is so widely agreed upon, it is remarkable how many organisations seem dedicated to promoting its opposite: fear.

“There is no fear in love: true love has no room for fear.”
Fear is a natural response to danger that quickens the mind’s efforts to anticipate and avoid potential peril or problems. However, stemming from the irrational part of the mind, it knows no logic and sometimes gets unhinged from its target. People whose lives have been filled with fear often continue to be afraid long after the potential danger has been removed, making up their own, irrational, reasons. Chronic fear is a debilitating state of mind that weakens body and soul, associated with heart conditions, nervous disorders, stress, depression and paranoia. This is especially dangerous when it affects the powerful, since it impacts the decision-making capabilities and distances people from the real consequences of their actions. Even worse, the natural result of fear is to act selfishly without regard for the wellbeing of others. This destroys the fabric of society by communicating to people that they are unloved and uncared for, inspires more fear in turn.

Love has many shades of meaning, but it is well understood as a selfless devotion to someone – a determination to do them right and to encourage and care for them. By focusing our attention away from dead matter such as money or material goods, onto the living beings on whom it rightly resides, Love helps us to rediscover our humanity. Taking joy in relationships with others is a positive alternative to escapism, and it helps us overlook their failings, inspiring them to love us in return. Love should circulate round the social relationships than make up a society as blood flows throughs a body, bringing healing, life and energy everywhere it goes, carrying antibodies of care to soften calloused or cynicical hearts.

In recent decades, public fear in certain countries has escalated greatly, fuelled by regular exposure to images of atrocities committed, most notably due to the so-called ‘War on Terror’. Barbaric acts by terrorists and terrorisation by media or government strike deep at people’s wellbeing because they resonate with so many people’s gut feelings of fear – the unspoken fear that in the anonymous, faceless world of big organisations we have made for ourselves, there is no one is willing to love and care for us.

To tackle the fear within us, we would be well advised to be wary of technological answer offered us, whether they be the building of walls to insulate us from others, or even worse systems to bend them to our will. Such selfishness will only spread conflict and terror further afield. A more feasible solution would be to let Love into our lives, and take steps to allay the fear of those around us. For example, if we live in a world of material abundance, not scarcity, we could share some of what we have with those who need it, allaying their fears of not being provided for. Charities are the institution supposed by many to fullfil this role, but large organisations are poorly placed to deliver compassion, and anonymous money is a poor conduit for signals of love, because of its impersonal nature. Just giving things away to people may well prove an effective boost to friendship, an antidote to the climate of fear that is being cultivated in too many societies.

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35 Responses to “FEAR OR LOVE”

  1. Budhau Says:

    Wow, heavy duty stuff – so who wrote this one – Downer or Victor Lal.
    Maybe you can follow this with an piece on “What Is Altruism”.
    And I will be organizing some hippie-type, protest meeting at my college campus.

    Si se Puede!

  2. Renegade Says:

    I heard from a reliable source that there were some factions of a well known revolutionary army although small in numbers but well drilled with jungle warfare and tactics suitable in such a situation that suits. It is a classis example of feeling each other out as to the military precision and way of thinking. The problem that the illegal coward faces is that he is no school and has limited experience hence his pathetic errors of judgement and shear kaicolo antics.

    There are divisions happening as we speak. I received a call approximately 17 minutes ago from someone within the confines of QEB and I can report that something is going to take place. The fact that Frank now knows he is facing resistance within the ranks and he knows that others within the realms have more constructed and logical thought than himself and he is getting concerned. Frank is getting nervous and he is as has been said just continuing to dig deeper…… Back to the rumblings within….. It is not just due to the fact that many are facing a premature retirement clause but also many within are not too happy about how things have transpired…In all honesty I feel many have woken up and like many Melanesians we are pretty placid but when things hit the shit and we start evaluating values and where we stand….KAPOW…… so hey for the beautiful people of Fiji and the ones that are sitting back and waiting…..well sorry but you need to stand up….you need to really look within and not be pushed around ….do it in numbers…..okay…but I can tell you things will happen but be prepared okay…..

    All and any of the tribe back there esp out west….. god bless. but to all the real Fijians and real Indo- Fijians and Kailoma just keep it real okay and stand strong and stand proud…and plez…if you see that old docile man kick his ass back to where he should be buried…what a disgrace…… you will be the laughing stock of Fiji in years to come…the bum boy and your senile old ass……you cant fooken walk you cant see so get your ass back to your village before you are taken out with a cane knife to the throat……and to the Lamu Sona Frank sorry brah…but your days are numbers…….sorry but the innocent have suffered…and do no what …… after this all dies down (and I emphasise DIES down) bro your family close and distant and all the idiots like the murderer who got released and on full pay …you know who I am talking about will be one by one tortured and taken to task….is it a threat hell no…its a promise………..all becauseof your arrogance and pig head…..you are the author of your own demise…..get used to it…. and tell that pretty boy Aiyaz not only to watch his back but watch his front…because I know my brah GS is waiting for your ass in Korovou….

  3. Budhau Says:

    revolutionary army – my arse!!.

    I have heard that a couple of Fijian boys who were doing private pilot’s training in the US will try and hire a couple of Cessna plane and attack the QEB.

    Renegade, you received a call seventeen minutes ago. Wow, have you synchronized your watches with the boys.

    I have recently seem this kinda crap on websites like this – and that fake Victor Lal article and that piece by Downer.

    When are you idiots going to learn – those Fijians back home, they ain’t idiots, so why lose credibility by doing this shit.

    BTW – why would GS be waiting for fellows prisoners. Isn’t this rebel army going to spring GS from jail and make him the next Chairman of the GCC.

    What a fricken dumbass!

  4. Asgrocky Says:

    Bhudau, my college campus has already organised one for December. It’s called “THE UNIVERSAL INTER-RELIGIOUS GATHERING”

    For those of you who follow prophecies. I thought you might be interested in this one.

  5. Budhau Says:

    No, no, Asgrocky – this ain’t about THAT savior.

    The name should be something like “THE UNIVERSITY COMMITTEE IN SOLIDARITY WITH FIJI” and we can invite Jone Baledrokadroka as the guest speaker, together with some Preacher from the Methodist Church, paid from the associated student’s general fund account.

    But than again, you could make a case that Bainimarama is Evil.

  6. digger09 Says:

    Renegade….your comments leave a lot to be desired….”you days are numbers..?” cmon “brah” if you were trying to seriously make a death threat to banimarama and co….you have failed terribly! These type of comments have been made since 2006 and nothing has happened! All that happens is these stupid blog sites die down and only seem to resurface when some situation arises. you’re just as bad as raw fiji news – in the hope that if you create the rumor it will happen!

    Please just give us a break!

  7. Asgrocky Says:

    You are right there, Bhudau. It ain’t about THAT saviour. That’s why I won’t be there that day. I won’t be surprised though if some certain people from Fiji will be here.

    JB is doing what he needs to be doing here for his country, buddy.

  8. Renegade Says:

    Bhudau, If there is anyone that is a dumb ass its you…..You obviously have a limited understanding of many things right under your nose however that it probably why your comments are more swinging towards the Indian bum chums who are going to put all Indo- Fijians in the line for decimation. Who are the first people to be hurt….Kaiviti no….Kailoma no….Tourists no……Indo-Fijians of course.

    Rev army well we are talking as I said prior small factions who may not be linked to the Fijian Military and whom have been in Fiji now and again either by legally or at times illegally. Fact- I know of two groups who if the situation dictates and if they are ordered to by their CO they will. I am talking about a group who is better equipped and who has more training and experience than our beloved Fijian army….. It would make Frank and Co look like toy soldiers. Have you also not heard of the Mercenaries that have been around in small groups over the last month or so….I suppose you also would say that the terrorist cells are not in Fiji but they are ( which is a different matter)

    So mr big head Bhudau or wtf you call your self get your head outta you Moms ass and wake the hell up its arrogant pigs like you that would be just great with that dik head at the helm or maybe you are FB Indian Son lmao.

    Anyway to the Melanesians godbless you and you know what to do not if but when you are required……

  9. Renegade Says:

    As for Digger….or what ever…..I have my comments you have yours and what the hell are you doing fool. sitting down having a cup of tea and cracker…Sell out. tavuli…IFF

  10. Kim Says:

    I agree 100% with digger. Just hot air and wishful thinking. Given the Fijian mentality to accept authority, however flawed, my guess is that we have to see much, much more economic hardship before resistance will emerge. While it would be naive to expect full support for FB by all RMF officers, the disgruntled once will have to wait until the time is right to make a move. And the more the general public suffers, the more condicive the conditions for change will be. But a deterioration of economic condition is coming fast. The notion that the devaluation of the currency will stimulate tourism is just nonsense as the local content of a tour package is minimal and the global conditions for tourism have deteriorated, eroding away quickly what little incentive the devaluation has provided. Noises from Oz and NZ with respect of curbing Fiji peacekeeping will have impacts on revenue too. Poverty will increase and with it some fundamentals of Fijian security will be undermined by the IG’s move to allow dual citizenship in order to rigg the next election in favor of Labour. Taken together, I guess some ranks in the RMF will be ready to remove FB by mid or end 2010. How this will unfold depends to a large degree on how bad the situation will have become for the average urban familiy in the centers. I still remember the looting mob during the 2000 events and back than economic conditions were actually quite good. The lid on the media has also blocked a valve that would normally let off the steam of frustration. The rumor mills are turning fast, increasing pressure in pot that is boiling slowly. I am afraid we have to expect intersting times.

  11. Budhau Says:

    Renegade you dumbass, writing crap in here, making it look like its fact – that was my objection. It wasn’t some anti-Fijian remark. Some of you idiots have a tendency to do that – every criticism is a racist remark.

    Yes we know that some of the foreign governments, including NZ, hopes that the sanctions would create a economic climate that may encourage some in the military to rise against Bainimarama. We had that incident where folks from three embassies in Suva had visited military’s number two guy in an attempt to take out Bainimarama even prior to the Dec. 5th coup.

    What NZ expects is that some junior officers (Young Turks) and enlisted men whose allegiance may be with their chiefs etc – they will rise against this regime. Any such action, hopefully, could get the popular support. Like the Tailevu folks who marched into the parliament grounds after the 2000 coup making it difficult for the law enforcement folks to take charge of a law and order situation.

    The problem is that those folks in-charge in Fiji, they are the Young Turks, guys like Leweni who was playing some drum in a military band few years back. Anyone who was anybody in the military, whom Bainimarama considered a threat, he got rid of them. Once they are outside the military, there is very little they can do.

    The Military knows this. If someone is planning to take out Bainimarama, they probably have the contingency plans all worked out. How would you like someone Driti taking over as the next PM.

    There is no chance of a foreign invasion. Any rebel type action and our military are set up to deal with it. The Fijian soldiers, you may disagree with their politics – but these guys are good.

    There are few people who are going around creating rumors – and some people may get hurt may hurt if the did something stupid.

    In the long run, whatever the situation is in Fiji, it can be resolved by non-violent means. It is easy to start some violent stuff – the hard part is stopping the violence.

    That idiot, Renegade’s threat against the Indians – you see Renegade, most Indians who could get out of Fiji, they have already left – that ability to get out acted as a pressure release valve for the Indians.

    Those remaining in Fiji, they don’t have a way out. You get there backs against the wall, like anyone else, they will turn around and bite you in the arse. You wanna make Fiji into another Solomon Islands – go ahead, make my day.

    Most Fijians know that in Fiji, constitutions come and go – this is just part of another cycle. No one is willing to lay their life on the line for Qarase – besides, what else are we fighting. It is hard to convince that the Fiji military, which is 99% Fijians, is out to destroy the Fijians – as some of you idiots would like us to believe.

    So you see, dumbass Renegade – that phone call 17 minutes ago, that was silly. And those guys at RFN are making up a lot of crap.

    KIM wrote, “The lid on the media has also blocked a valve that would normally let off the steam of frustration.”

    Yes Kim it is interesting this time around with the internet – I think internet helps some of these guys to vent off steam in here – it wasn;t there in 1987 – when folks in Ba and Nadi did not know what was going one and Rabuka had the Security decree that basically said that if you are caught with a underground newspaper, you go in for 2 years, without the Habeas Corpus – you don’t get to see a judge.

    Any violence is bad for the Fijians, this would become tribalism at its worst.

  12. Renegade Says:

    orso, more hot air brah lmao..save your words…. lets all sit back and dom what many Fijians are known for nothing…till its too late…….so mr dumbass or is that your daddy FRANK…what would you suggest……..lol…..as you know everything maybe you should run the banana republic…..I just wonder how long you would last….or would you sell out…..
    At least you are not in Fiji so you are safe I guess haha….

  13. Budhau Says:

    Renegade – Yes, I am safe – this is just like rooting for the Ba, the boys in black, at the end of the day it does not make any difference – Ba win or lose I still go home and have a cool beer.

    Now you should be more concerned, since you have indicated your concern for the Fijian people. Thus, it is incumbent upon you to be more careful as to what you say. Spreading these rumors can get people killed. What if the military does believe that an uprising is imminent – and they haul in a group of soldiers who they suspect are the ones who called you seventeen minutes ago – what do yu think they are going to do to them. Remember the Mutiny in 2000.

    Now, lets look at your racist angle – so you have this country that God gave it to you, you start some violence and your grandson would be paying a price for it – your country would be down the toilets.

    Even if you wiped out all them Indians – there are still a billion of them around. What if there is Fijian on Fijian violence?

    So you see, even from a selfish point of view – you don’t want to see anything bad happen to your country and its people – right.

    So keep your cool – always look for the best possible alternative.

  14. Relax Man Says:

    Renegade you sound like a 2000 coup supporter??? whats with JB?? how could they take on some one who suffers from mental deppression and that is a proven medical fact!! perherps he will lead your so called village army!!!

  15. Dau Says:

    Please guys chill out on your uprising ideals. Some writers condone the idea of an uprising and bloodshed. If that ever happens then the wound inflicted on this nation will never heal for a very long time. There’ll be some tribal or provincial conflicts no doubt. In my heart I know good sense will prevail. The power of the pen is mightier than the sword, I say the power of Prayer is mightier than the pen and the sword. Thnx guys.

  16. Budhau Says:

    There are the Fijian confederacies and Fijian Provinces and therein lies the conflict. Some of the blogsites, like the RFN and others, want to bring up this Indian bogeyman issue somehow bringing up this notion that this conflict is between indigenous Fijians and Indo-Fijians.
    Hey, guys……. when are you going to figure out that Chaudary is not the problem and neither are those Indians.

    So when the violence that you guys been talking about starts, it would be a Fijian on Fijian violence – just like the good old days. Some academic once wrote about Fijian nationalism – that there is not a single unified indigenous Fijian nation.
    As Rabuka also once said, “….the real struggle is amongst indigenous Fijians, and it is continually masked by the rhetoric of a racial conflict between indigenous Fijians and Indo-Fijians.”
    So which side are you on?

    BTW Dau – I think it might be a better idea to religion out of this also.

    Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate physicist once said:

    “With or without religion, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things takes religion.”

  17. sesau Says:

    digger09 tonoka ne sona nei budhau!

  18. sesau Says:

    budhau and the rest of the crooks!the truth will always be the truth no matter how you twist it?Here’s a simple test. Place one finger in your rear window and see if it is really yours. If you feel it then that is the truth

  19. renegade Says:

    Trus-up.lmao. Budhau just more hot air…. we have heard it all before so please…..what a load of waffle. The Indian will be the first to run thats a fact. I think civil war will eventuate due to FB and his idiotic croonies. Look at the line up lmao…all Indian. Fiji the new Indian Capital…. Get used to it while so many sit their and feel the Good Lord will answer your prayers……sorry but theres only one way and thats making a stand……. Sorry but its the truth and you know it!!!!!!!

  20. Budhau Says:

    renegade – you wrote, “The Indian will be the first to run thats a fact. ”

    Oh, so you, and sesau, have the monopoly on “facts” and the “truth”. BTW – what are you gonna do when they come for you.

    The line up is all Indian – oh yeah – let me see, the President is Fijian, the military is 99% Fijian, the police commissioner is Fijian, most likely the chief justice would be Fijian – sho where is this line-up. So you have some Indians – mostly technocrats who are doing a job.

    The good lord will answer your prayers – for what, so that you can either wipe out the Indians or run them out of the country.

    You see Dau, how otherwise good people can get down to doing evil in the name of God.

    Renegade, you idiot – you have been making a stand since Dec 5, ’06 – yeah right, on some blogsites. And you have so far got one guy to march in the street – poor Tui who showed up in the street after Qarase had lost his case earlier, with a sign on his shower curtain.

    The question is not whether the Indians are gonna run – the question is where are you going to run – and than, your children would be “foreigners” in the country that you ran to.

  21. sesau Says:

    bdhau sona levu

  22. sesau Says:

    budhau sona levu

  23. sesau Says:

    budhau you are starting to smell like an indian fart!!

  24. Dau Says:

    Budhau, Paranoia about the persecution of Indians seems to be the order of the day for you. Please calm down, have a cool beer. Your critism of my religious belief is somewhat frivolous. Don’t forget true religion comes from within not without. Believers dont have to go to church to pray. A positive meditative contemplation can be even more effective than praying in church. Any form of worship is a form of mental conditioning be it for the demons or GOD. Mine is Jehova God.If you’re an Atheist or Agnostic thats your choice. Please don’t get paranoid over the fact that I pray and encourage my fellow men to do the same in these trying times, of course thats their perrogative. You could check out TM(transcendtal meditation). Its not a Religion. Its an anecdote for stress. God Bless you my son…..Oooopss I forgot the… AMEN!!

  25. Budhau Says:

    Dau, I agree with about the paranoia about the Indian.

    BTW – Dau, you misunderstood my criticism…I wasn’t criticizing your religious beliefs. What a was saying is that all lot good people have done evil things in the name of religion – ALL Religions.

    Good people do good things, and evil people do evil things – but you put religion in the mix and you can get a lot of good people to do evil things.

    Does that make sense…nothing against your religious beliefs.

    Let us look at the Fiji example – I am sure people would be bringing up their “God given right” to rule Fiji. Or that God gave this country to us – why don’t the foreigner’s understand this.

    I am not paranoid over the fact that you pray and all that – sometimes I do feel sorry for you.

    BTW – as you said TM is not religion – I have nothing against folks who may do yoga or meditation and the like. I thing that there are some conservative Christians who may not think they same way you do about meditation and yoga.

    I think I like what Carlin had to say about religion:

    “When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!”

    ……BUT HE loves you.

    AMEN!!

    Its much more funny on youtube, check this out.

    I saw that clip on youtube and said “holy shit”.

  26. Dau Says:

    Budhau, there’s some misconception about me and my religion here. I am in full agreement that the abuse by the religious has been rampant over the past, especially by men of the cloth. The Spanish Inquistion is an example of blatant abuse and manipulation by religion(church) when interwined with politics. The Good Book is idiomatic in many of its chapters. The ten rules (commandments) is the basic fabric upon which all religions are built. The teachings of 2000years ago was well suited for the intellect of that time. As we evolve socially and culturally and academia in abundance today, naturally we question and analyse past practices and the existence of God. The praticticality of religious beliefs in the world we live in today is one of the basic necessities for a cohesive co-existence. I know for a fact that its a cause of many a conflict as well. Can you imagine if the majority of the grassroot Fijians who believe in that invisible man up in the sky didn’t have that faith. Need I say more……….I can see that you are perhaps a well read academic but you haven’t dug deep into the importance of religion..The majority of people dont have your analytic ability of the invisible God and it suits them fine to worship in the traditional manner. They take their young children to church where a strong spiritual foundation can be developed. These young ones can make their choice later in life…….Some of them no longer believing in the invisible God. The basic respectabiliy which sets us apart from the animal kingdom is the tolerance, and understanding of other humans. One’s God should not be ridiculed because his intellect only allows him a non analytic dedicated worship of the invisible God. I suppose its what makes the world go around; we’re all different .Some of us dumb and not so well schooled and some of very high calibre. Lets relax in co-existence with each others religious beliefs.
    GOD BLESS US ALL! (Invisible God).

  27. Budhau Says:

    Dau, I did not know what your religion was when I posted that quote that “”With or without religion, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things takes religion.”

    If you look closely, it does not say which religion – it is aimed at all religions.

    So how did you take that and concluded that I have some misconception about you and YOUR religion.

    Religion is bureaucracy between man and god (if there is a god). BTW – you brought in the subject of god and it existence – I never said anything about God did I – I remark was limited to religion.

    You wrote some about “Can you imagine if the majority of the grassroot Fijians who believe in that invisible man up in the sky didn’t have that faith.”

    I think the Fijians did have belief system (religion) prior to their conversion to Christianity. If they had not converted to Christianity, I am sure their pre-Christianity belief system would have evolved with time. What are you trying to suggest, that if the Fijian had not converted to Christianity – that they would still be cannibals, clubbing each other in tribal warfare.

    The Fijians had their belief system, just like the someone who is born is Pakistan is very likely to have a belief system that is prevalent in that region.

    You wrote, “The praticticality of religious beliefs in the world we live in today is one of the basic necessities for a cohesive co-existence.”

    I believe in the opposite – religion is the root cause of many of our problems, it prevent from thinking rationally.

    You wrote, “I can see that you are perhaps a well read academic but you haven’t dug deep into the importance of religion.”

    The above is the kind of condescending attitude that you usually see among the religious types – that “you don’t get it”.

    You see, I figured out very early in life that Krishna, Buddha and Jesus – they were all like Santa Claus. I like the story about the garden with a talking snake or the one about the talking bush. Just like the story about the three little pigs and the one about the big bad wolf. Then there was this thing about earth being created 5,200 years ago – my class eight teacher did not buy that.

    You see, Love and forgiveness and all that – that is all good – and I think the Fijian people, and others would have known about love and forgiveness even if they had not converted to Christianity or adopted some other religion. People who do not have religion, they also do good things (and evil things).

    So you see my point – that good people do good things and evil people do evil things – but it takes religion to get some good people to do evil.

    You wrote, “Lets relax in co-existence with each others religious beliefs.”

    I think you still did not get it – whats between you and your god is personal, and if you don’t bring that into the mix here in this forum or in politics, there would be no problem.

    So if you want peaceful co-existence – than you keep religion in its right place, out of this forum – and you can believe in what you want and I can believe in what I want to believe in.

    I am sure that there would be many who would attempt to convince folks that dying for some cause would get you into heaven – that we have a god given right to rule this country and we have to protect that right with our lives and that is the kind of thing that you want to keep out when the discussion in here is highly charged.

    ..and I believe I will now go get myself a cold beer while my room-mate Jose will fast and pray for peace in Fiji.

  28. Dau Says:

    Budhau. I was just pointing out that the ridiculing of the existence of an invisible God and life in heaven or hell was rather harsh considering the fact that you write some thought provoking opinions. However, I’ll religion out as you suggested earlier,rather than sink into the depths of a quagmire of trivialities on religion. Lets agree to disagree.

  29. Budhau Says:

    Dau,
    If you read carefully, I wasn’t ridiculing the existence of GOD – I was ridiculing religion, which is something that man has created – as a said before religion is a bureaucracy between man and GOD (if there is a GOD)

    Are we clear on that – this discussion so far is not about GOD, it is about religion – you do get the difference.

    It is religion that has convinced people that there is a invisible man living in the sky – he see everything you do, every minute of every day, and he supposedly he has a list of things that you are not supposed to do – and one wrong move, and you go to this special place – where there is fire and smoke and all that stuff – and you burn and suffer in there for ever.

    BTW – he supposedly loves you.

    Now – since we don’t want to dump on one religion, let us call this invisible man, the Space Daddy.

    Now, do you see where we differ – you probably believe in some of the above, regardless of what religion you belong to to – I think the above story is bullshit.

    I think that if there is a GOD, maybe there is – in that case, he must be either incompetent or he does not give a crap – if you look at what is going around us, how can you come to any other conclusion.

    However, I really believe that there is no GOD, just like there is no Santa Claus or Humtydumty. And if there was GOD, I don’t think he would send me to burn in hell – for not believing in him.

    Now getting back to my original point – lets keep GOD, religion, prayer and the like out of this forum and out of the Fijian politics. As I have said before, you bring in religion in here and you can get some good people start doing some evil stuff.

    Without religion – the good folks will do good things and the evil folks will do evil things – I don’t think you get the evil folks persuaded into doing good things, but you sure can persuade a lot of good folks, in the name of religion to do evil.

    If you don’t believe me – just look at history.

  30. Asgrocky Says:

    Bhudau, Carlin is obviously describing her own god she knows so well.
    I think she’s done a good job of talking about it coz she’s got you preaching it.

    Dau, don’t be so offended, you should know better. By the way that title of that religious gathering that came in our student mails as I stated in my previous post
    on
    Asgrocky Says:
    April 19, 2009 at 4:25 pm, I had only glanced at that mail so didn’t quite get it right. I said it was Universal Inter-Religious Gathering. Now that I’ve had a good read it’s actually called “The Parliament of World Religions”.
    This will be the world’s largest inter-religious gathering hosted here in Australia in December.This event seeks to facilitate cooperation between Australia’s Jewish and christian communities and growing numbers of Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh and other religious and spiritual communities. The theme this year is “Make a World of Difference: Hearing Each Other, Healing the Earth. If you want to know more about this Parliament go to : http://www.parliamentofreligions2009.org/email/email1.htm

  31. Budhau Says:

    Asgrocky, like our god, whatever you call HIM, ,I call him Space Daddy – Carlin is a HE.

    All I am saying is that keep religion out of these forum, keep relion out of politics, try and go for that concept of separation of Church and state.
    Specially when a large part of the population does not have the same religion as what the past regimes have promoted.
    Fiji is not a Christian state, we should not demand Sunday bans – and we have seen all these issues create problems.

    The issue here was that don’t bring in religion to psyche the opponent of the regime into some action.

    I still stand by my remark – that religion can get some otherwise good people do some evil stuff.

    BTW – my objection was to all religions – when I said religion can make good people do evil things.

  32. Asgrocky Says:

    I think there is going to be a union between the 2. Point taken though.
    Anyway, trend of what is good and evil is changing. Used to be evil is evil good is good today what is good or evil is what the majority says

  33. Dau Says:

    Budhau, I dont think you understand my point. Religion and God come in a nutshell, whether you worship a deity; dakuwaqa, Rama, Jesus Christ, humpty dumpty or santa claus as your god. That bureaucracy is religion, isn’t it? The dogmatic nature of religions, such as Christianity, Judaism & Islam is maintained by all adherents. When you criticise & ridicule religion you automatically are critical of the god that religion worships. Fair enough, you’ve done that in a very condescending manner by your description of the Space Daddy! Our perception of space daddy is esoteric in nature, I’m sure you’ll respect that and you have your views on my Space Daddy. As for religion, nothing on this planet is perfect. Evil only exists because there is good, & good only exists because there is evil. These opposites cannot exist without each other. Their cause & effect can be generated by religion, politics, economics, you name it, the list is endless. I can’t honestly say that I respect your denigrated view of religions and its gods but rather find its insensitivity touching on the realm of bigotry. Anyway I will not comment on this subject anymore. you made your point I’ve made mine. The dogma of my religion compels me to maintain my prayers to my Space Daddy for Peace. May Space Daddy bless us all.

  34. Budhau Says:

    You see Dau, God has no religion, religion is essentially a social phenomenon, created by man.
    When someone criticizes or ridicules religion, your reasoning was that such criticism translates into being critical of God. I think your reasoning is flawed – one can be critical of religion without being critical of God.

    People may not openly say so, but they are usually critical of other religions and practices. They usually believe that their religion is the “real thing” – others have it all wrong. Because of that, they go around trying to save or convert people.

    I don’t think that there is one God for the Christians and another for the Muslims – and those Hindus they have more than one God.

    You said that by criticizing religion I was being “critical of the god that religion worships.”

    See how you got it wrong – you are assuming that one religion has a different God than another and when I criticize one religion, I am criticizing “their” god.

    If I were to believe in God, my belief would be that there is only one God – the Space Daddy, he is my god and your god too. It would be OK for you to call him by a different name since you are familiar with that name but you should not get insulted if I refer to the God as Space Daddy. So since people in different parts of the world have found different ways of worshiping that same God – that does not make God any different.

    Whether you believe in god or you don’t, that is another thing. However, the bullshit that I was talking about is what has been created by man. I do find some of these beliefs ridiculous. Since both of us a familiar with your beliefs – let me point out what I find ridiculous – and I hope you don’t take this as an insult.

    I think it is silly to believe that there is some invisible being, sitting up there in the sky, who watches over you every minute of every day and he has a set of 10 rules that if you break – he will send you to this place set aside for people who break these rules. This place has fire, smoke and torture and that and you will suffer in there for ever.
    And BTW – this same being loves you.

    I don’t think the above has anything to do with God, some guy figured this out and put it in a book – just the humptydumpty story or the Three Little Pigs story. If someone is critical of this, how does than make him critical of god? I am sure you find similar stories in all other religions – talking snakes or talking bushes etc.

    If I believed in God – the Space Daddy, I would take one look at the world around me and figure out that either Space Daddy was incompetent or that he did not give a crap about what happened to us. I think that it is perfectly fine for me to have that belief system and for you to be critical of my belief system – so I won’t be offended if you tried to convince me that my beliefs were all screwed up. I think that if my belief system was wrong and yours or that guy in Bhutan who has a different belief system happens to be right – I still don’t that that Space Daddy would send me to burn in hell.

    But Dau, my point was that you should keep your religion to yourself, and I will do the same. Let’s not get religion mixed up into the Fiji situation which is highly volatile. History shows us that people have used religion to get other good people to do evil stuff.

    Since we have such a diverse group of people if Fiji, with different belief systems and religions and since we have a history of some Christians trying to declare Fiji a Christian state and put in place things like the Sunday Bans. The conflict in Fiji also has a ethnic angle and it so happens that one ethnic group is predominantly Christian and the others are not. Taking all the above into account, rational thinking people would want to keep religion out of this conflict.

    That is why I took an exception to you bringing up religion in this forum. Regardless of beliefs, I am sure that both you and I would not want this conflict to have religious overtones. We also know there would be others for whom polarization works in their favour – thus some politicians will use race, religion etc. to have more polarization.

    I wish you all the best if you want to fast and pray for peace and if that makes you feel any better, you go for it. But keep something as personal as religion to yourself.

  35. makare59 Says:

    Budhau & Dau have had an interesting exchange on religion. Dau seems sincere with depth while Budhau was trapped in his own crap. In his last comment Dau said he was not commenting anymore. Be good if Dau could eleborate further. Religion is Spirituality and Universal, not necessarily personal……..

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