ILLEGAL REGIME + GROSS IGNORANCE = THUGGERY

Thuggery has come to the fore under the igs watch.
 
As per usual when the ig cannot resolve an issue they resort to the only method known to them, base behaviours to intimidate and cause harm to anyone who offers a solution to the illegal regimes misrepresentation of democracy or dares to utter criticism  re their insignicant attempts to govern.
 
It’s all true, the Voreqe Bhainimara led coupsters couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery (although they are all known gunulotos – freeloaders) nor an orgy in a brothel (certain coupsters are part of the furniture in these establishments) and they expect the Nation of Fiji to allow them to govern 
 
Hah!
 
Kaiviti makawa, it’s to be expected from Voreqe Bhainimarama and his ig coupsters who’re still at the knuckle grazing stage of evolution.
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41 Responses to “ILLEGAL REGIME + GROSS IGNORANCE = THUGGERY”

  1. Keep The Faith Says:

    Good grief if he’s trawling the HORROR section of the DVD shop, that in itself speaks volumes.

  2. Koya na Man Says:

    Its always been the case, becoz the coup itself is wrong and immoral, obviously the outcome would be scandalous,mischievious e.t.c.,e.t.c……..

    What a shame when this thugs are cashing in from government treasury, and trying to justify themselves that everything is rolling well,roads and bridges would be built,investors pouring in numbers and so on.What a load of crap..

  3. church mouse Says:

    You guys, get back to talking about issues instead of just rubbishing those who are somebody’s brother, uncle, dad and in the good times might be nice people. Like a possum backed into the corner of the roof, they might need help in finding a way out themselves!
    Meanwhile somebody is still sticking his nose into politics.
    2011 the right time for the polls: Rabuka
    Tuesday, March 17, 2009

    Former Prime Minister Major General Sitiveni Rabuka believes the right time to have the General Elections, is the end of the term of Parliament elected in 2006 which is 2011.

    Speaking to FBCL News, Rabuka says his Party believes, by then, everything that is required by the Interim Government will be completed including Electoral Reforms. Etc etc.

    Hey, Mr Rabuka you still want to have your say!
    But don’t you reckon you’ve had your day.
    So just have a bowl of kava or go away!

    and could you guys start a discussion on the topic of – what if there was one person, one vote, no communal seats, but as AD Patel wanted in 1970 a very plain kind of voting. What would be the repercussions? Wouldn’t most people still vote for someone they know from their own language/ethnic/clan group anyway? Would a woman vote for a woman, an old person vote for someone of similar age, a young person vote for a kind of younger person, etc. Would the general public be willing to just look at the names and vote for the person with the skills and ethics to do the job? I wonder.

  4. Cama Says:

    Even if we change to a common roll, voters will just vote along racial lines as witnessed in past election for open seat.

    so another critical area to look into is the electoral boundaries. races should be equally distributed in the division of boundaries.

  5. parasad Says:

    The man is well known for changing gaol posts to suite him and his illegal IG. I’m sure that he’ll probably dragged everyone into this President Political Forum thinking that they now have a deal or something to that effect, but 3 or 5 months down the road, he’d get all riled up, for some stupid reasons or another and bang! there is no deal!!!!Then after a few months and more political raggling and kissin ass, he’d act like a spoiled kid and call everybody back to the bargaining table for another bullshit forum?
    I say this with all my heart, Fijians need to take this man out of the picture totally.

    We need the SDL party with Mr Qarase or a new Fijian leader to run Fiji and if ONE MAN ONE VOTE is what we need than lets do it together. I have no problem in Fijian running the Government of Fiji as its Prime Minister and President and am willing to vote for it.
    Those of you who think otherwise than possibly the best thing for all to do is move to another country that will accept you and give you the rights you desire. Lets not destroy this beautiful islands,there are magic all over our landscape and lets protect it for the future generations.

  6. Kingrat Says:

    i am just wondering why do we have two sites to SV

  7. Budhau Says:

    That one-man-one-vote deal is better for Fijians. The Indian population is declining fast, would be down to about 20% or less in the next 10 years.
    With a common roll voting system, there would be more Fijians in parliament than there are now.

    The problem is that those non-Ratu Fijians, they might form some sort of a coalition with others and even with those Indians and start winning elections. That is the problem – them Ratus – they know it is about power and money and they would like to return to status quo.

    Why can’t you guys figure this one out.

  8. Jean d'Ark Says:

    Who gives a rats, Bud?

    People are responsible for their own votes, and however the dickens they want to see themselves.

    Let ’em vote on whatever they consider to be important, and let the cards fall where they may. Anything is better than the current rubbish!

  9. Budhau Says:

    Yes, Jean, people are responsible for their votes – all we need to do is to level the playing field – one-man-one-vote, no gerrymandering, etc so that everyone’s vote counts the same and that everyone has a equal shot at being elected.

    Why should 10 guys from Lau and their dogs be able to send one representative to parliament when 10,000 guys form Ba send the same number of representatives.

    My point above was, the fairer electoral system in the long rum would be more beneficial for the Fijians. The Indians are going to lose out because of their declining numbers.

    While the way they are trying to get this system is wrong, the substance regarding the electoral system makes sense – and if Qarase and the Ratus get back in, they ain’t making those changes.

    Yes, anything is better than this rubbish – but how did we get into this shit?

  10. Jean d'Ark Says:

    You are not saying anything controversial, Bud!

    The PDDF is ALL champing at the bit to agree to electoral reform, but it is the regime which is baulking at this. That is because their entire approach is simply a red herring to try and put everything off until they can beg, borrow, bribe or butako enough significant electoral support to at least tip an election away from an SDL victory..

    In any event, there is a difference between gerrymandering specifically to try and rig an election in your favour, and simply trying to arrange things so that the natural economic advantages enjoyed by the urban majority are not compounded by an unfettered and unfair political dominance as well. That doesn’t need to have anything to do with race at all.

    Nevertheless you can rest assured this Regime is definitely going to try and rig electoral boundaries and arrangements in their own favour in any case. Why is that any less repulsive than Qarase or anyone else trying to gerrymander things in their favour?

    Still, it remains to be seen how on earth the Regime could win any fair election with only a few thousand votes from the military to count on.

    Finally the very worst examples of born-to-rule “Ratu” privilege-without-performance that you scoff at, are right in the dead-centre of this regime. It is a central theme in their guiding motives, and is one of the main reasons Fiji is now facing all the multi-faceted woes that have been inflicted upon her from, and since, the 2006 coup.

  11. Budhau Says:

    Jean your theory about natural economic advantage enjoyed by the urban majority – well, …it does not work that way in Fiji. Look at Ba, with sugar, gold, tourism and what not, probably the wealthiest province in Fiji and guess what – they don’t have the political dominance that you suggest. The two times that they elected a Prime Minister from their regions, they were couped.

    I agree with you that this regime will try to do whatever it can to win the next election, rigging, gerrymandering or whatever – just as Qarase did. I think that may be one reason Chaudary decided to join FB after this coup – he probably felt that the last two elections were stolen from him and the next one probably won’t have been any different.

    How can the regime’s supporter win a free and fair, one-man-one-vote election? Well – those Indians, if they decide to go with Chaudhary, they make 40% of the population and Chuadhary may get his regular 80-85% of that. Those Catholics, some of them would go with pro-coup folks. Some of the Labour unions, which include Fijians, will go with pro-coups folks. The FLP might also get a few percent of the Fijian vote. On the other hand, Qarase would have work on his racial polarization to keep his crowd united…and even than there would be several Fijian parties on the fringes.

    There is a chance that if the changes to the electoral system are made, the pro-regime folks have a chance. That is why there is a fight about those electoral changes. Its all about power and money.

    The Fijians chiefs, who have been in power for the last 35 years, are afraid of this coalition, where the Indians may form a coalition with some Fijians and get back into power.

    They have not forgotten how Ratu Penaia Ganilau was defeated by Captain Atunaisa Maitoga and how Ratu George Cakobau then had to invite his cousin Ratu Penaia to contest the more secure Tailevu South Open Seat and he only won because the Fijians had to vote that way because the request had come from the Vunivalu of Bau himself.

    Do you see why the chiefs are afraid of the one-man-one-vote level playing field? We will still have more Fijians in parliament because of their numbers – it is just that the chiefs will lose their control on power and money. That is what the fight is all about.

  12. senijiale Says:

    Agree with you kingrat, whoever STOLE Kutu’s blog, u’ve made your point, now give Kutu back his blog!

  13. senijiale Says:

    C’mon Bud, stop being silly trying to pass off mere speculation as fact. How did Qarase rig the last election?

    Of course, Fiji’s coups have ALL been about power, money and revenge.

    And yes, I’m sure most people can understand where MC’s coming from, but does 2 wrongs make a right?

    The people of Fiji are not naive, gullible or stupid, feudalism will be dumped where it belongs, in the annals of Fiji’s democracy… but it is a gradual process, we do the best we can and pass on the baton and hope that next generation WILL complete the job.

  14. senijiale Says:

    C’mon Bud, stop being silly trying to pass off mere speculation as fact. How did Qarase rig the last election?

    Of course, Fiji’s coups have ALL been about power, money and revenge.

    And yes, I’m sure most people can understand where MC’s coming from, but does 2 wrongs make a right?

    The people of Fiji are not naive, gullible or stupid, feudalism will be dumped where it belongs, in the annals of Fiji’s democracy… but it is a gradual process, we do the best we can and pass on the baton and hope that next generation WILL complete the job!

  15. Budhau Says:

    Senijiale – on that vote rigging by SDL – there is no such thing as a perfect election, in any democracy, they always screw up. So we than have to look at what went wrong and why. Usually, just plain screw-ups should be over looked it they did not make a difference to the overall results.

    In case of Qarase and SDL, both the elections were relatively close. All that Qarase and company had to do was to swing a couple of marginal seats their way.

    As for the international observers being present – well, they will be there again this time, and they will certify that everything was above board, however, if Qarase loses, we will hear about the next election being rigged. It is virtually impossible to prove vote rigging if one is subtle about it.

    Now, lets look at the SDL and what they allegedly did.

    Remember how Qarase strenuously denied claims implicating him in vote rigging when Peter Foster made that secret recording. Never mind who Foster is – it was SDL strategist Navitalai Naisoro who was taped saying that they allegedly swapped Labour votes for SDL votes in certain seats. The allegations were that SDL-friendly police, who were meant to ensure ballot boxes were sealed, put extra ballot papers into them to boost the party’s vote.

    Naisoro, who was a SDL party strategist and former chief executive of the Fiji Development Bank, is alleged to have told Foster that SDL focused on ballot boxes in the 10 or more critical marginal urban seats. Go check out that tape – it is on youtube – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HimS8wwVDFs

    FLP had been bitching about that for years, from right after the election when they saw ballot papers being brought in brown paper bags or late arrival of the ballot boxes. Lavinia Padarath wanted to go court on that – but how could they prove it – and Qarase’s line was that they should go complain to the Election Commissioner or prove it in court.

    Usually, they start counting the ballots right after the poll closes – that one time they started the count in the central division three days after they knew what the results were in the west and the north – and this Naisoro guy is corroborating that claim that urban marginal seats were rigged.

    What if this time around, the military boys are guarding the ballot boxes, and what if they pull the same crap – you think Qarase will be able to prove that the election was rigged. How about if people on this site raise the same claim – and I come around in here and say that it is just speculation – where is the proof, go file the complaint with the elction commissioner or prove it in court.

    I think that given the evidence that we have, I may not be able to prove that Qarase is guilty in a court of law – however, that does not make Qarase and the SDL innocent. Not guilty is not the same thing as being innocent – it just means that we did not have enough evidence to prove it otherwise.

    If the FLP did not feel that they were robbed in the last two elections and they were couped in the the two elections that they did win, I am sure that would not have jumped on this FB bandwagon – that just had no other choice.

    Would you except the results of the next election if you honestly believed that the elections were rigged and that you just could not prove it in a court of law due to the lack of evidence.

    So they time they wil get the taste of their own medicine – be it the coup or election rigging.

    BTW – check out that youtube piece – it is interesting.

  16. parasad Says:

    Budhau you blockhead the Last 2 general elections in which the SDL were voted into parliament, by majority of our citizens, were both monitored by the United Nations, the European Union, Australia, New Zealand, the Commonwealth of Nations including the South Pacific Commissions etc,.
    Actually the whole world were there to witness the whole process and here you are with your no brainer story that they all screwed-up and didn’t see what that idiot thief/crook from Australia said happen?.
    Stop trying to damage our relationship with the Itaukei and if you don’t like living in Fiji than move out and don’t bother coming back cause we don’t need people of your agenda and don’t need from you either! I’m pretty sure everything will be settled by the i Taukei in their own way and everything will be back to normal “the way the world should be”and Mr Qarase or another i Taukei will be here to captain our ship again!!!!!!!!!

  17. Budhau Says:

    Parasad – you idiot – that was my whole point – the monitoring don’t mean shit.

    The whole world would be there to monitor the next election – however, the next election would be supervised by a election commissioner appointed by this regime, a election supervisor appointed by this regime, police who will guard the ballot box would be sympathetic to the regime, the government printing folks who print the ballot papers – guess who will select them – and if there is any screw up like extra ballot papers being destroyed after the election – we will blame that on “administrative error”, the audit of the ballot papers after the election would be done by people appointed by this regime.

    You see Mr. perasad it does not matter what that guy from Australia said – what matters is that that the Chairman of the SDL Candidate selection committee and who is also chairman of the SDL strategy committee admitting and almost boasting that they rigged the election.

    I think he was telling the truth – however, even if he was lying – he was still talking about those imbecile, loser SDL candidates that he selected to run for parliament so that he could control them, and dumbass folks like you voted in those imbeciles (his description, not mine). and you want the “captain” to be back.

    BTW – I will be here when you buggers come back to complain about how the next election was rigged and that Epeli boy becomes the PM and Chaudary the next Minister of Finance….and I will give you the same line – the International observers were there and they certified the election free and fair. I am sure you will accept the elections results because the “whole would was there” to see that the election was fair.

    Fiji “the way the world should be” – my arse.

    As for Qarase returning as the captain of the ship – You buggers are up shit creek without a paddle – let see what your captain does now.

    ..and you know how you got there – go ask Rabuka and the GCC that has supported coups in Fiji.

  18. OjO Says:

    Parasad:
    A
    s much as I find this BudHo fellow corrigible and often espousing his idiotic nonsense he for once is on the money and quite correct in his summation of past events and any possible event that might have some bearing on our country.

    As far Qarase being the Captain of the ship once again to lead you lot that is open to debate it may be prudent in the long term for him to learn how to control a takia first.

    It is obvious this BudHo has learnt from his errant ways or is that spiked back tortoise ride finally did it for him.

    Watch this like flies to fecal matter he will respond with all guns a blazing.

  19. Jean d'Ark Says:

    Sorry Bud – haven’t had access to the computer for a bit, so I’m gonna have to rewind a couple of evenings.

    Anyway, do you know why they call Ba Town a town? It is because it is an urban centre! Just because it is not as big as Suva, or isn’t a “city” per se, doesn’t change that fact.

    As for the upcoming elections, Chaudhry is clever, but he is unlikely to be able to fool 80+% of the Indian population to vote for him a second time.

    There is still a lot of resentment in the electorate over the “stolen” Haryana funds, and all the court cases in the world are not going to keep that out of the public debate come election time.

    Moreover, Mahen’s near total “bust” as Finance Minister will be a synch to get the Indian business community offside with him for the next elections.

    So all things considered, he’d be lucky then to get even 75% of what is still after all a collapsing Indian population! So the longer they hold out form elections, that is 75% of less and less!

    And that’s not even taking into account the possible imminent collapse of the Sugar Industry. If that goes, Mahen can forget even 70%!

    FInally, you are over-estimating the significance of the Catholic Church. They only make up about 7% of the Fiji population, and because of church teachings, are typically more compatible with the FLP/socialist view on things anyway. So they will not be bringing too many, if any, new votes to the Labour side of things anyway.

    By contrast, the longer things go on, the more apparent it is becoming that the Charter is a load of cods-wallop, that has neither invigorated the economy, nor helped the poor, nor prevented Frank from engaging in a chunk of “behind the scenes” affirmative action for Fijians. This is the same Charter which so many senior Catholics have aligned themselves with. So as it tanks, so does the political credibility of those who are associated with it.

    Finally, I repeat – who is afraid of one man one vote? Nobody has spoken against it in the PPDF. The SDL is saying “bring it on!” because neither they nor any other serious party is afraid of any fair arrangement. The thing is they are not likely to get anything like that, because the Regime cannot win any free and fair election due to their increasing unpopularity.

    Why do you think they originally agreed to the March 2009 elections? It is because they thought they were going to be the next post-coup Fijian party to rise to dominance out of nowhere like the SVT and SDL had done before them.

    But they completely misjudged to the mood and intelligence of the Fijian electorate, because they thought they would just fall for any old rubbish. But so once they detected that the Fijian electorate wasn’t just following them like unthinking lemmings, they had to back out and break their promises on elections to everybody BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY DIDN’T HAVE ANY REALISTIC CHANCE OF WINNING ANY ELECTIONS!

    This is what explains the disconnect between the straight-forward prospects of getting general agreement in the PPDF, and the unaccountable delays and nebulosity of actually getting this process to move ahead when there are NO OBVIOUS OR SPECIFIED DIFFICULTIES OR HOLD-UPS!

  20. senijiale Says:

    Thanks Bud, that was interesting viewing that video recording again between that froggy-groggy Navitalai Naisoro – the Chairman of the Candidate Selection and Strategy Committee (phew! wot a mouthful!) and conman Foster.

    The terrible recording and the issue of possible manufacturing of the taped conversation aside, I do see yr point in believing that froggy Navitalai Naisoro was telling the truth about SDL vote rigging – yeah! why not boast about the rigging to a conman who obviously lacked the credibility to be believed shud he ever decide to snitch on Mr. Froggy. Legality and ethics aside, it was all about winning for Mr. Froggy & cohorts aye!

    Btw he seemed so sure that those who were involved would never talk, there’s something called ‘immunity’ if they decided to tell all. What really was their ’cause’ I wonder… and how do they know they were all behind the ‘same cause’?

    I wonder what those SDL candidates thought about being called ‘unemployable imbeciles’ by Mr. Froggy. Damn, I’d be furious at being used & abused… but ‘unemployable’ beggars can’t be choosers, can they so I guess they made the best candidates to Froggy…

    On the other hand, wasn’t that fat boy idiot Richard Broadbridge behind that recording? Didn’t he just get his wrist smacked by the Court for his role in secretly recording that Blue Gas case where he was described as being ‘naive’ but not acting in bad faith (since fat boy pleaded he only saw it as a good story to cover in the media when Punja 1st told him about the bribe).

    Then again, I’m not so sure about fat boy’s plea of innocence since Blue gas owners – Punjas, held substantial shares in Fiji TV where he worked. Vaqara promotion o koya despite the fact that Blue Gas were robbing their customers blue!

    U’re right about the difficulty in proving corruption, often exacerbated by the sheer lack of political will to put in place proper checks and balances to counter them. Whatever happens Bud, i think the TRUTH always has a way of finding its way out into the open and exposing all those who hold a vested interest in maintaining a certain status quo.

  21. Budhau Says:

    Jean, when I mentioned Ba, I was referring to the Ba province, not the town of Ba – that Sugar, tourism, gold and all that I mentioned – I wish we had that in our Ba town.
    Secondly, you came up with the theory that our old electoral system was “simply trying to arrange things so that the natural economic advantages enjoyed by the urban majority are not compounded by an unfettered and unfair political dominance as well.”

    I disagreed with that that pointing out that Ba (province) is one of the richest regions in Fiji, and I would consider Nadi, Lautoka, Ba (town) as urban areas – however, being both wealthy and urban – Ba does not have the political dominance that your theory suggests. When Ba elected a PM, and they did it twice, both times we had a coup to replace that PM. Even in the Fijian traditionally hierarchy, Ba folks are way down at the bottom of the totem pole.
    Are we clear on that that – that being wealthy and urban does not mean “unfettered and unfair political dominance as well”. That is one reason why the Fijians in the west, including our boy from Sorokoba, vote their interest and not race.
    Your second point, about Chaudary/FLP not getting 80% plus of the Indian votes. Let us agree to disagree on that. This is why I believe that Chaudary would do it – If you look at the history of the Indians and FLP, I think they will vote the same way as they did in the past – and especially this time with all the racial polarization that we see and what is yet to come when Qarase gets his election campaign going. The Indians are as scared as the Fijians about their future and those who may be sympathetic with NFP – when faced with a common enemy, foes will join forces. While NFP guys like Rae and Attar Singh are good intelligent folks, they are in NFP simply because they hate Chaudary because of the union infighting – these guys do not know cane belt, where the Indian power base is – just like Krishna Dutt had no farmer following. Chaudary has the right mix of union/urban and rural/farmer support.
    As for the “Stolen” Haryana funds – in Fiji, it does not work that way – we have seen our politicians plunder our own treasury of hundreds of millions of dollars, and we still vote the same guys back in – year after year. We have this tendency to look the other way – both Indians and Fijians do that. BTW – the jury is still out on the “stolen” funds.

    As for Mahen’s performance as Finance Minster – I think the argument would be that under the circumstances, Mahen did a fine job. Anyone else and the country would have been bankrupt long time ago. Besides there are those rumors just before the coup that even Qarase wanted Chaudary to come is as the Minister of Finance when the economy was in a bad shape, we also had rumors that FB wanted Chaudary back as Minister of Finance a few weeks ago. – we can argue about it whether these rumors are true or not – but I think those Indians, they will buy it. Your argument that Mahen was a bad Finance Minister will not fly.

    You see, the Indians are scared that if Qarase wins, it will be pay-back time – so they better stick together and vote for Chaudary… they will rather deal with the devil they know…..

    As for the collapsing sugar industry – they will blame it on Qarase, not preparing for the EU subsidies going away and the non-renewal of leases and Qarase insisting on NLTA and not ALTA – and besides, even if we had a total collapse of sugar industry, who are the Indians going to trust – Qarase or Chaudary to help the farmers…and to get the leases renewed.

    As for the significance of the Catholics – yes they make up 7%, add that to approximately 40% Indians and a small percentage of Fijian votes that the FLP would get, plus a few smaller Fijian parties that are willing to work with FLP and MC is a serious threat to Qarase. Besides, they are talking about changing the electoral system – to the first-past-the-post. In a first-past-the-post race, Chaudary will make sure that the FLP or any of his coalition partners do not act as spoilers – only one candidate will run against the SDL candidate, they will all pool there votes for that one candidate – and all they need is 50% plus one – none of that preference crap. Remember how Chaudary brought down Apisai Tora, his own coalition candidate – by some creative engineering…and I already gave you that example of Captain Maitoga of NFP defeating Ratu Penaia. And BTW, Chaudary would be fielding a lot more and better Fijian candidates against those “unemployable imbeciles” from the SDL.
    Chaudary is good at forming alliances, he even formed alliances with the nationalists in the SVT days to first make Rabuka the PM and than bringing about his downfall. Rumor has it that the Matanitu crowd almost sold out to the FLP offer after the 2000 election.
    As for this thing going longer and the situation getting worse – Chaudary knows what CYA means and he is good at it. By the time this is all said and done, no one will even remember that he was a cabinet member in the regime. However, that no charter no election, that is a must and all this dialogue they are having now, everyone will buy into that because the international community will put pressure on SDL and the rest.
    When the election time comes, it won’t be the regime that would be running in that election – and I am sure the likes Chaudary would have distanced themselves from the regime if things look bad.
    What we will have in the next election is some kind of coalition with NFP and SDL and Beddoes with Attar Singh and few unions – and none of the Indians are going to vote NFP – just for that reason. FLP will go by itself with some strategic alliances with one Fijian party from the west and someone like the New Alliance and they will guarantee some safe seats for folks like Ganilau, by not running a FLP candidate and endorsing his candidacy. They will have the military “riding shotgun” with them during the campaign. And of course, there would be another 13 Fijian parties – from nationalists to religious parties – and if they win any seats, Chaudary will buy them out also.
    The reason we do not have an election scheduled is that the Charter has not been adopted yet. Once that is done, they will not announce an election yet – first they will get the feel of things, get organized while not allowing Qararse and company to regroup and than announce an election at a very short notice. Of course, there would be some minor election rigging, some vote buying, printing extra ballot papers with little accounting and all that – nothing has changed…and they will very likely, win the next election, just like Qarase won the last two.

  22. parasad Says:

    Budhau you’re still a hardcore blockhead as it appears that you’re not using your head but rather your derriere when making comments and or observations on important issues such as the above. The united Nations hires only people with illustrious career,education,experiences and world class qualifications in order to deal with world problems etc,etc,. Obviously,UN Staff dispatched to trouble spots throughout the world are by and large the very best in the world in their field of experiences and if you think you can out maneuver them in their field, then Budhau you’re a total certified blockhead! When the UN Staff certifies that an election is clean, as were the cases in the last 2 Fiji General Elections,then you can bet your tortoises AZZ that the said two Fiji General Elections were CLEAN!

  23. Jean d'Ark Says:

    Bud,

    I was not raising the urban/rural divide in respect of Fiji’s old electoral system. I was raising it as an example of why one-man, one-vote is not necessarily ALWAYS in the interests of fairness. We should not lose sight of that just because we are trying to over-compensate for some mistakes on the other side of the coin.

    Fiji’s old system was skewed WAY too far in favour rural electorates, but that doesn’t automatically mean that skewing should not be called for under any circumstances. Many enlightened democracies in the world have some kind of skewing, usually to mitigate AGAINST the tyranny of the majority.

    As for Mahen’s share of the national vote, you seem to forget that this discussion is about the chances of the Regime’s political successors winning power at the next elections – not the FLP.

    In any event, your assumption about Labour’s putative “inelastic” political demand in the Fiji-Indian electorate defies human nature. I am not claiming that most FLP stalwarts are going to remain as such for the next elections. But I am claiming that not all people who voted FLP last time are FLP stalwarts!

    In that light, it is simply not possible for ALL Fiji-Indians as human beings to be completely impervious to the FLP’s stuff-ups! So according to human nature (vs hypothetical Indian political nature of the majority), there must and will be a price to pay sooner or later. Whether that comes down to switching of allegiances, or merely a lax or cynical attitude towards elections next time, it will be what it will be.

    But even if Indians prove to be irrationally loyal to the FLP, others will not be. Your argument assumes that the FLP power-base is exclusively Indian. It is not. And as the FLP’s drop in support from 1999 to 2001 shows, this group will certainly punish any perceived FLP failures (like partial blame for a coup)!

    Also you have forgotten (again) that democratic elections are decided by swing voters in marginal seats – not loyal voters in safe seats. Swing voters, whether they are Indian or not, are much more discerning than you give them credit for. There are swing voters in every electorate, including the Fiji-Indian one. They will certainly not be fooled by the cheap kind of propaganda that the Regime and FLP are currently dishing out.

    Moreover, although fear is certainly a powerful driver of political sentiment in an election campaign, you have forgotten to specify “fear of what?”. The bogie of Fijian nationalism may be strong in the Indian electorate, but it is off in the nebulous ether at present, and has little if anything to do directly with any of Fiji’s current difficulties.

    Meanwhile, there are also other powerful motivators out there that are now front and centre of this Regime’s economic mismanagement. For instance – the fear of losing jobs or paisa! If you don’t know that, then you simply don’t know the Indian electorate!

    The fear/anger of losing paisa not only touches on the Haryana funds (if you think the jury is still out on that one, just go ask some indian taxi drivers for their opinions – it will be far different from your 80%-20% ratio).

    In any case, the paisa fear/anger also touches the newly arisen FNPF controversy. Just look at the Letters to the Editor columns, or the amount of people who have mass-posted Wadan’s report to each other! Many working people are quite concerned about this turn for the worse, and they are NOT blaming the SDL for it!

    That’s a very easy 10% right there, without even considering Mahen’s bomb-out as Finance Minister. Your counter-claims regarding that can EASILY be up-ended by a straight-forward comparison with Fiji’s economic growth under the 2001 Interim Regime. Chaudhry even had the advantage of being witness to that “trail-blazing” effort of how to get Fiji back on economic track in less than two years. He already had a precedent to see how it worked, and even how he could do better!

    But he totally spurned his chance (and Fiji’s quick restoration), by choosing instead to get bogged down in obsessive bitch-fights to instal his minions over EVERY office and sub-committee in “his” ministries. Then instead of considering some of the “out of box” economic thinking that Aiyaz and Parmesh are always harping about, Mahen chose instead to treat the national coffers like the “under-mattress” savings of some penny-pinching, rural Indian store-keeper! And there we are – an almost unprecedented economic contraction of minus 6.6%! $200 million in job-creating, wage-paying economic growth pissed away for nothing more than childish, pig-headed willfulness!

    So your arguments about Mahen’s shoddy performance as FM don’t hold any water at all, leastways not to anyone who knows that minus 6.6 is smaller than minus 1.8!

    And as for the blame for the possible collapse of Sugar, all you need to do is listen to what the farmers reps are already saying! They are ALL pleading with the IG to resolve Fiji’s problems this year so they can get the EU Sugar Restructure aid. That means farmer’s reps understand that the Regime has the power in their hands to do something about the Industry’s plight now. That in turn means that if nothing is done, and the Regime continues to waste time chasing wild geese and throwing up red herrings – then the blame for any collapse will only end up in one place. At least for the honest ones amongst them.

    So in the context of all these negative implications, people don’t have to switch political allegiances to have an effect on voting percentages. They just have to get disillusioned and not bother to vote next time – and there you are! And there are a LOT more Indian voters who are disillusioned with Mahen and Frank today than there were three years ago, let me tell you!

    Your first-past-the-post comments are true as far as they go, but don’t change much because that mustard cuts both ways. Also, the “spoiler” status may be foiled there, but will be re-instated in the MMP arrangements at Parliamentary level. This is why Chaudhry was so “hell-bent” against those clauses in the Charter and PPDF – because he knows that they will hamstring him as PM, just as much as they might hamstring Qarase.

    As for Chaudhry’s putative electoral alliances, he may be good at forming alliances as you have said. But he is even better at breaking them and making enemies of friends! If he does win the next elections, I give him two years max before his partners outside the party, or his friends within it, turn on him in a no-confidence motion a la Tups Baba!

    As for your statement about the Charter not being adopted yet, don’t you realize how stupid that sounds? “We” value the peoples’ opinions on who should govern in an election, but we don’t value their opinions on the framework for that, because we know best! So the peoples’ opinions count on the one hand, but don’t count on the other? Puhleeeeze!

    And Fiji is giving up millions of dollars in foreign aid, and the political stability that will bring economic growth, for something that can, and is, being implemented already anyway? Puhleeeeze!

    So since the Charter IS already being implemented anyway, what is the hold-up? The hold-up is that the Regime is scared of something that they know, and everyone else in Fiji knows, but only you seem to be in denial about…

    And that is that they are scared to go to democratic elections because they fear the verdict of the people! And the reasons they fear that democratic verdict is they know they haven’t achieved nearly enough, or kept their promises, or helped create anything like a “better Fiji”!

  24. parasad Says:

    Jean-
    a brilliant observations and well balance comments.

  25. Corruption Fighter Says:

    Bud

    Something has changed when MPC is staying silent while the sugar industry is going down the drain very fast. Silence about the loan to South Pacific Fertiliser is understandable (farmers didn’t know he was doing that with THEIR money) but silence while the EU aid package is lost is going to cost
    MPC very dearly.

    MPC earned the loyalty of his cane farmers by constantly blaming others for their problems. His silence now tells us a lot. If he could blame Qarase, he would, but the fact that he’s silent tells us a lot.

    What I can’t work out is why MPC doesn’t heap blame on Frank? It’s unlikely that he’s scared of the green goons. One thing everyone agrees on is that he’s not easily intimidated. It must be that Frank has some hold on him
    that we don’t know about. Some dirty secret that keeps MPC under control. But tell me Bud, do you think that MPC is silent because there is nothing about the IG he could criticize?

    JdA

    You are spot on with your assessment of the MPC Finance Minister performance. And don’t forget his petty war with Fiji Water which sent a message to investors that winning every argument, so that he could impress his cane farmers, was more important to MPC than consistency or honouring
    commitments made by earlier governments.

    As to elections, if the IG goes ahead with the new electoral system, MPC’s power base is gone completely. The NFP would wind up with a significant batch of seats at FLP’s expense, even if the NFP vote didn’t increase, which it certainly will, just because of the change in the electoral system. Chodopu$$ conveniently forgets that his victory in 1999 would not have been possible under the electoral system proposed in the Charter.

  26. Budhau Says:

    Corruption fighter –

    You have to back up some of your claim with some hard facts – as to why NFP is going to produce a different result this time around.

    Here are the top guns of NFP in the 2006 election – Pramod Rae (Secretary NFP) got 5% of the votes in Samabula Tamavua Open, Attar Singh, another heavyweight, got less than 7% in the Suva City Open. Raman Pratap Singh (President NFP) got less than 10% of the votes in the Labasa Open – another canebelt seat.

    In the open seat in the west, where NFP is supposed to do well – they managed about 10% to 15%, In Suva area – Cunningham 2%, Laucala 4%.

    So WTF do you get this from that, ““The NFP would wind up with a significant batch of seats at FLP’s expense, even if the NFP vote didn’t increase, which it certainly will, just because of the change in the electoral system.”

    Guys, the proposed electoral system requires 50% plus one vote to win – Comprende.

    FARMERS UNION
    As for what the farmers knew and what they didn’t – those farmers, they ain’t fools – it is that Bala Dass and that Swami guy from the NFP farmers group – they are doing their number because for them, their universe revolves around Chaudary.

    Let me tell you why Chaudary got the farmers behind him.

    In 1985/86, Kermode was putting the new master award for farmers and FCS (BTW Kermode was a former FCS lawyer. Kermode did not even want the National Farmers Union in there – in those hearings – the military regime had shelved the growers council elections. NFU fought the Kermode award.

    Remember when the Alliance came up with the Seaqaqa project for Fijian cane farmers – its was Chaudary’s NFU that exposed the the lots were going to government minister and their wives. The Alliance folks were cashing in in the name of the Fijians just like the what Fijian leaders did with FHL.

    Go read the history of the NFU in the 80’s and how it benefited the farmers – when faced with a repressive regime.
    Read about farmers agitation, boycotts and court cases that finally stopped the Kermode Master award and the government backed down and went back to the 1970 Denning award.

    The 1990 strike by the farmers, against a repressive regime – the first time they really got the farmers united. Back in 1943 and 1960 – they had farmers strikes but the farmers were split and the strike failed – this time it was Chaudary – and they won.
    BTW – those military thugs had attacked Chaudary’s house and car – nothing seem to have changed, has it? did any of your cousins complained when they did it to Chaudary?

    Chaudary mobilized the farmers and unions and there was solidarity action by ACTU, NZ trade Unions, International Labour organizations to get Rabuka (by then he was colonel) to back down from some decrees that they were trying to put into effect restricting the farmers boycotts and unions from organizing. Ganilau suspended those decrees.

    We have seen nothing like that – this time around.

    BTW – corruption fighter, if the Charter is bad for Chaudary and that he could not have won the 1999 election under the new system – that at least shows that the man is not being selfish.

  27. Corruption Fighter Says:

    Budhau

    Proportional representational doesn’t work on the basis of 50 percent plus one vote to win. Fifty plus one is used in single member constituencies. PR works on the basis of multi-member electorates with the proportion of seats won reflecting the proportion of votes won.

    If the Western division has an electorate of 27 seats (based on its share of the population) FLP might win about 10 or 11 while the NFP, even with its low 2006 vote, would pick up say 2 or 3 seats, at the expense of FLP.

    But ow can FLP avoid losing votes after MPC has failed to stand up for the sugar industry? Why is he so silent? Tell us.

  28. Budhau Says:

    Hey Corruption dude – the current electoral system has so far guaranteed the Ratus to have a firm grip on political power (and money) – the proposed change is a threat to this status quo – that is what the SDL, the GCC, the Fijian elite and the rest are scared of. Those who have been on the outside will now be able to share in this political power – no matter which way to look at it – and it is about time.

    When Chaudary and his boys started the FLP – it was about non-racial politics, hopefully that is the direction we will be going with the proposed changes.

    With the voting age reduced to 18, those young folks they tend to vote less conservative – less likely to vote for the chief.

    Having said that – now you look at Chaudary’s ability to form coalitions – under any new, more democratic system and a level playing field – why do you think Chaudary is not going to thrive under this new system. Remember, how the dude got 37 out of the 71 seats – the first time Fiji’s political history that any party got an absolute majority in Parliament – and what did Chaudary do – he still went and formed a coalition with the other parties – except for those “unemployable imbeciles” who wanted the deputy PM post and several ministerial posts.

    So whether you like Chaudary or not – don’t write him off yet. Remember how, back then, when Fijians voted for VLV and PANU – and how those votes were transferred to FLP.

    OK – so NFP won 6% of the votes in 2006 – in a proportional system that would translate into about 4 seats, but on the other side the New Alliance boys would have got 2 seats and UPP should have got none, and independents about 3 or four seats. So, you see you cannot argue the specifics, given that kinda situation – who do you think would have pulled together a workable coalition – Qarase or Chaudary.

    Go with the general – that Chaudary knows how to play this game, better than anyone else.

    Learn from history.

    Remember how 1977, Buta got 25% of the Fijian votes, or when those Fijians voting for VLV and PANU transferred their votes to FLP in their overwhelming victory.

    You remember Chaudary’s Cabinet line-up when he won – with VLV, Independents and all – the dude had an absolute majority of 37 seats, he still worked with others and had 58 members in his team out of 71.

    In 1992 – when Rabuka and Kamikamica were both going for the PM’s post, Chaudary made Rabuka the PM on certain conditions. Rabuka reneged on what he had promised; Chaudary worked with Kamikamica and brought down the Rabuka’s government in 1994.

    As for those communal seats, in the 90’s the Reeves commission came up with the recommendation that we have 45 open seats and 15 communal, Rabuka/Reddy came up with 45 communal and 25 open – Chaudary was against the large number of communal seats.

    You know why we have 71 seats in parliament (kinda odd number). They had originally came up Communal seats, 23 Fijians, 20 Indians, 1 General electors and 1 Rotuman, total 45 Communal and 25 Open = 70 seats. Reddy sold out the Indians (his multiculturalism theme) and agreed with David Pickering and gave away two Indian seats to generals – reducing the Indians numbers from 20 to 18 – without consulting the Indians or Chaudary – When those Indians found out, they were pissed off at Reddy and it was later decided to raise the total from 70 to 71 and give those Indians one extra seats – that is why the odd number of seats.

    So why was Chaudary bitching about one or two seats – Because there are some entrenched issues such as land – and that one vote in parliament could have made the difference.

    Chaudary knows how to play the numbers game – that one seat that Reddy sold out on – probably cost him his political career.

    Chaudary was always for less or no communal seats – and a more democratic system.

  29. Corruption Fighter Says:

    Budhau

    You seem to be getting lost in history. Who are the Ratus that the current electoral system guaranteed “a firm grip on power”? Not the Mara clan, that’s for sure. They have to rely on coups to keep them in power, except in 1999, when Chaudhry came to their rescue.

    As for Chaudhry’s ability to form coalitions, it’s second only to his capacity to betray them.

    I repeat: when will he speak up for sugar farmers? You may not have noticed his silence, but the farmers have.

  30. Jean d'Ark Says:

    CF – Mahen is silent now because he knows that the best way to protect his “reputation” right now is to steer clear of controversy.

    There are only two positions to take in politics right now: pro-regime, or anti-regime.

    Although the natural “alliance” for him is with the Regime, MC knows that support for the regime is something that can come back to haunt him at the next elections. And he can’t afford any more of a drop in popularity ratings than he’s already suffered from Haryana-Gate.

    Yeah, he has to tread carefully alright – the full extent of manure in the air-conditioner still hasn’t dawned on the Sugar Industry yet, and he ALREADY has his hands full with the SPF crisis.

    He is the most wily politician in Fiji’s history, but even he won’t be able to emerge unscathed from the coming economic and social disasters.

  31. Budhau Says:

    Corruption Fighter – on the Sugar thingie.

    Come on guy, get you fricken facts right. Here it will give it to you.

    The loan money to SPF – the decision was made in a hurry because the situation was urgent. When such decisions are made sometimes the representatives go back to the farmers, in other case that decision is made by the representatives

    In this the Sugar Cane Growers Council, The National Farmers Union, the Growers Fund, Fiji Sugar Corporation and the then interim Finance Minister Chaudary – they all voted in favour of this move – loaning that money and paying from the 2008 crop.

    If this wasn’t done, fertilizer company would not have been able to import the fertilizer and the farmers would not have any – with the fertilizer company shut down, the farmers would have been in a bigger crap. There is nothing to suggest that even if the representatives had gone to the farmers, the decision would have been any different.

    Now the NFP through its Fiji Cane Growers Association is bitching about this – they were there at the meeting when this was decided, the participated in the discussion and agreed to this.

    So why we have not had a comment from Chaudary – because the dude was in India – come on you guys – you can do better.

    As for the Ratus having a firm grip on power for the last 35 years -what part of that statement is incorrect.

  32. Jean d'Ark Says:

    Bud – oh that’s right I remember now, they don’t have any phones in India.

    Anyway, Mahen’s problem with SPF is not that he didn’t make a straight-forward decision.

    The problem for him is that he could not come up with a miraculous solution. He has carefully cultivated an image over many years of being the farmer’s saviour – but he simply couldn’t come up with the goods when the ball was in his court. So his saviour image is demonstrable toast now.

    He did the same thing to his “unionist” credentials when he docked civil service pay packets to help pay for the coup that he himself helped hatch and encourage.

    So he will be entering the next elections as a mere fallible human who doesn’t offer much of an alternative to anyone who can just use commonsense when the chips are down.

    On top of that, he won’t have the “spoilers” advantage that he has had in EVERY election he has contested to date, of really laying into the Government of the day for the problems faced by the nation. His part, and the part of his political allies, in Fiji’s present dire straights, are way too obvious for the man on the street to ignore.

  33. Budhau Says:

    Jean, you can do better than that smart ass remark about no phones in India – Chaudary does not have to respond to the bitching by the NFP and the Fiji Cane Growers Association while he is in India. A response by the FLP office is sufficient – its idiots like the Sami and Dass for the FCGA – and folks like you and Corruption Fighter who have Chaudary at the center of your universe. As far as this issue is concerned – he don’t have to say shit – As for the farmers, they ain’t idiots either.

    You buggers want to keep this racist crap going because racial polarization means power to the Ratus – well guess what, it ain’t happening.

    By the way such smart ass remarks – like they don’t have phones in India – that don’t help you credibility either, the little that you had. BTW – how come you never commented on the fact that there was a consensus of opinion on this issue at the time the decision was made.

    As for Mahen’s “straight forward” decision – every fricken group that was involved in that decision – they all had the same opinion – what exactly do you suggest he should have done. An dlook who is complaining – some fringe elements in the NFP.

    As for the farmers saviour – hey, no one knows better then those farmers who their saviour is – they don’t need someone like you to tell them what is best for them – and despite what you think about them, those farmers ain’t stupid.

    As for the next election – why don’t we just wait – and see who is left standing after every thing is all said and done – Qarase of Chaudary.

    Listen, you don’t teach Chaudary politics – the man has shown it time and time again that he has the staying power – and those who vote for him – they are no idiots, they know what is going on.

    Its people like you – who either have an intense dislike for Chaudary or for Indians and you keep shoveling this crap in here.

    In Fiji we are in this shit today, not because of Chaudary, or this coup – we are in this shit because of the thieving Ratus – who want to hold onto power and money at all cost – and because of racists bastards who convince the common Fijians that it is their god given right to have the Ratu’s in power – these same folks who supported the the coups in the past and now, Hallelujah, they have seen the light – it is democracy all the way – democracy my arse.

  34. Jean d'Ark Says:

    Bud – remember this?

    “Jean, when I present a argument I try to justify with an analysis – trying to put the facts together with what I think is right or fair.”

    Your last post doesn’t sound like that to me.

    Touched a raw nerve, did I? Sorry ’bout that.

    Try holding your breath and counting to 10, or centering in on your Chakra, or repeating a mantra of “mellow… mellow… mellow…” to yourself. You’ll feel better for it, believe me.

    However if this was just your VTS alter-ego popping up again, then you’ll need a bit more therapy than that.

  35. Jean d'Ark Says:

    Oh, by the way – the Indian telephone joke was just there to show up the ridiculousness of the claim that Mahen is not able to comment on anything just because he happens to be overseas in India right now!

    You can rest assured that Mahen is fully briefed by his people on what is going on in Fiji, and has given them clear and exhaustive instructions on how to deal with it!

  36. Corruption Fighter Says:

    Budhau

    The sugar issue is very simple. If the Illegal Regime is prepared to set out an election timetable that is reasonable, the $350 million from the EU can be accessed and the sugar industry has a chance. If not, there’s no hope. Chaudhry needs to say where he stands on this issue but he’s still
    obviously hoping to sneak back in to the Illegal Cabinet.

    Who are the “thieving Ratus” but the Mara clan who were Chaudhry’s partners in the 2006 coup? You may not have noticed it, but they have been rejected by Fijian voters.

  37. Adi Kaila Says:

    CF apparently Chodory is in India on a private visit, could be another kerekere mission who knows. One thing is certain, he will never win the elections ever again because he has lost the faith of his base in Fiji.

    He could also be in Haryana to cash in on the toilet business, who better to do so than the big ghan himself

    “Indian women raise stink in ‘no toilet, no bride” March 27, 2009

    COURTSHIP can be an intricate business in India, but the mothers of the northern state of Haryana have a simple message for men who call on their daughters: “No toilet, no bride.”

    The slogan — often lengthened in Hindi to “If you don’t have a proper lavatory in your house, don’t even think about marrying my daughter” — has been plastered across villages in the region as part of a drive to boost the number of pukka facilities.

    In a country where more households have TV sets than toilets, it is one of the most successful efforts to combat the chronic shortage of proper plumbing.

    That is probably partly because of the country’s skewed sex ratio, with 8 per cent more men than women, leading to a “bride shortage”. Women generally have also become more vocal in their resentment at having to relieve themselves outside, giving brides more leverage in premarital bargaining.

    In India, it is estimated that more than 660 million people still defecate in the open — a big cause of a host of diseases, from diarrhoea to polio.

    It is women, activists say, who suffer the most. “Women who must go outside have to do so before sunrise or after nightfall so they can’t be seen,” said Bindeshwar Pathak, founder of Sulabh, which has built toilets for 10 million Indians, and the recipient of this year’s Stockholm Water Prize for developing ecofriendly and cheap toilets to help improve public health.

    Ranjana Kumari, director of the Centre for Social Research, said: “I come from a village and I know that if there is no sugarcane or wheat in the fields, women may have to walk very far to find privacy. It’s inconvenient, undignified and, at night, it’s not safe.”

    Those behind the “no toilet, no bride” scheme in Haryana are pleased with the results. About 1.4 million toilets have been built in the state since the campaign began in 2005, many of them with significant government subsidies.

    “We have more toilets, less shame among women and less disease,” said S.K. Monda, the official in charge of the program.

    Locals agree that the campaign — which also runs television advertisements, radio jingles and cleanliness rallies — has changed how they think.

    “Our daughter will be married only to a family that has a toilet at home,” Satwant Kaur, of the village of Khanpur Koliyan, told a local news service.

    “(If need be) we will hold out for the construction of a new toilet.”

    The Times

  38. Budhau Says:

    No Jean you did not touch a raw nerve – that last post was meant to offensive – and as talk Ojo once, I am all for a nice exchange of ideas, however, I could also turn around and kick him right in the nuts.

    I haven’t heard from any of you guys – as to the fertilizer company loan – that everyone there including the NFP boys went along with that move. And who is complaining, that one NFP guy and CF – and you expect Chaudary to interrupt his poolside activity at some five star Indian hotel to responds to these idiots.

    As for the issue that CF is talking about – Chaudary has made it very clear that he supports an election after the necessary electoral changes – EU can decided what they want to do with the $350 million – and BTW the fertilizer issue has little to do with the EU.

  39. Jean d'Ark Says:

    Hey Bud – wari nahi!

    I’m also all for elections after necessary changes!

    The problem is, I can’t see what is the hold-up. The major parties have already been liaising with each other behind the scenes using Yabaki and others as intermediaries.

    So there is already general agreement on what these “necessary reforms” might be (they are uncontroversial and would not surprise many people)

    So with everything pretty much a foregone conclusion for the PDDF (at least as far as what most people want, as opposed to what Frank may be after), I ask again – where is the great mystery?

    Whatever the mysterious issues are, why can’t they be brought out into the open in the interests of transparency???

    Fiji is in desperate need for forward motion, business confidence international assistance NOW to help get us out of the hole that Frank has driven us into with his neurotic “my way or highway” bloody-mindedness.

    I don’t accept this rubbish that the Regime is the only ones who really understand the issues involved, and must be left alone in their black boxes to sort it all out for the rest of us!

  40. OjO Says:

    Bud:

    The only person kicking arse around here is me, I will leave the arse-licking to you and your ilks.

  41. RendiurnSer Says:

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